98VHP w/ 63FFC4 bottom

[TheRealPorkchop]

No; he not doing it right.
It is physically impossible to get that much wattage out of a 40 amp power supply.

To get 900w out of that radio, you would need a power supply that would put out over 100 amps @18v. In that video - under load (keyed), the power supply showed only 12v. It goes against the laws of physics to see that radio put out 900w. Has to be something wrong with his test setup to get those numbers.

Anyone else see these same faults in that video?

I was being facetious.

I'm not saying he's getting those watts but I'll tell you what he is doing, he's showing you he is in that video and every other video that he's posted of doing that mod. And at 12v I will agree, it just isn't possible but wait, watch it again and the impossible is possible. What could possibly be wrong with a Bird meter to get that, a slug that's out of calibration? Maybe, I don't know. Again, I'm not singing the song of his praises, I'm asking a question as to how it's possible, what is he doing, whether it's wrong or not... what is he doing to get that to show that way?

And in my mind, since it's not possible, when some dude buys that radio and gets it in the mail and it's not putting out anywhere near that power, somebody is gonna be ticked off. Look at his website and see what he charges for that radio, you'll be floored. Someone dropping close to $1500 in a Galaxy 98VHP to find it doesn't do 900 watts PEP, you tell me they won't be seriously disturbed. And if it were me, I'd be on YouTube commenting or posting my own video of how it doesn't perform as stated, yet I don't see that. So again, how's it possible or impossible yet being shown right there in front of your eyes... what's he doing to falsify that reading if that's in fact what he is doing?

 

[TheRealPorkchop]

Also, if you watch the 2970 video, he says he believes the black top transistors are DEI, they're not. I've got some laying right here and they are HG Semi. They are in the factory Ranger board, untouched, in fact it is a factory bottom from a 63FFC4.

And then I have another board here, a replacement board that you have to supply your own transistors for, and I have a brand new set of matched red dots. New board, new transistors.

His video(s) are showing a huge difference between the HG's and Toshiba's but I'm right here looking at the difference and it's very, very minimal.

With the HG's I was seeing 250-300 watts average and about 500 watts PEP. And with the red dot's, about 300-350 average and maybe 500-550 PEP.

And that's on a 98VHP with more than desirable bias on the driver and finals in the radio itself and with one of those super-duper NPC mods (yea I know, I know). The point being that regardless of how crappy I've set this radio up, there still isn't no 800-900 watts PEP and there won't be.

And pay attention... he clearly says if he had a 100 amp supply that would hold 14.5 volts that he'd get over 1000 watts PEP out of that... I'd have to see that and then I'd be back here asking HOW all over again because it's just not possible. So for the 100th time in this thread, how is he doing it?

 

[Robb]

So for the 100th time in this thread, how is he doing it?

Editing!

Because it isn't in the electronics.

If you are getting 400-500w out of your box, I would take that as a good sign that you did your part right - and leave it at that.

 

[TheRealPorkchop]

Maybe it's that SP-1A he's putting in there...haha.

 

[Robb]

He's gotta have something wrong with his test setup.
But I'd agree with you that his customers will be pissed.

 

[TheRealPorkchop]

Yea if I had $1300 to toss around I'd order one just to see for myself. Which is why I started this experiment in the first place. I'm kinda disappointed that nobody has stepped in with claims otherwise.

 

[TheRealPorkchop]

Resurrection time!!

Ok it’s been what, 7 or 8 months since I posted this? He’s still putting up videos showing more and more of these 8-900 watt marvels. I’ve doe several more of these conversions myself and still no 800-900 watt turn outs. The absolute most I’ve seen on my Coaxial Dynamics meter with a 1000w slug has been about 550-575 peak and around 250-275 average. I installed the peak kit and since my service monitor just had a calibration at the beginning of the year, I used my readings off it to calibrate my peak kit. Maybe it’s off a little, maybe it’s a lot, I don’t know.

So who is gonna be the guinea pig and order one of these radios from him and see if in fact makes those power claims? I nominate Sonoma!

 

[Handy Andy]

Someone needs to pull that Bird out of the oven - it's pop-up timer has been indicating it's long overdue...

There are Turkey's, then there are Turkeys - Watts the Bird that is in there?

Hint. Class AB radios themselves will easily pull close to 10 amps - leaving less than 30 on a 40 amp - even 50 amp can't deliver 900 watts the amps (sic) aren't there to make it work and don't tell me volting is doing this - because at the demonstrated wattage - they'd (2879's 2290s' 1446's) do explode - and unless they're 2nd harmonics, which prolly' is adding to this - the Birds's summing the harmonics in with it.

So no matter the "true" watts, the 50 ohm calibrated goes out the window once the slug is used for measuring beyond the intended bandwidth - so the summing of harmonics and the reads he gets sound about right for the issue of power harmonics-with the wrong slug...

Yes, wrong slug - if hes' pushing harmonics into the meter - the readings will be way off the intended.

And on top of that if he re-wound the combiners - the impedance is off on those too - I've been seeing combiners wound with nearly three times the needed winds - it affects the output impedance (Man! I can't believe I'm saying this stuff) it's no longer 50 ohms. Reflected power winds up adding into this mess...

Time to pull the covers off and show and tell - and if he ain't then don't buy it - no ones forcing you to.

 

[TheRealPorkchop]

I’ve watched those videos pretty closely and pausing it, the turns look identical to what’s factory. I don’t think it’s that. I don’t believe those radios are doing that much power but I want to know what he’s doing to make it show that much.

 

[Handy Andy]

Somethings Fishy...


ok, are you sure you're reading that meter right?

Dual scale - 400-500 or are we seeing 800-1000 watts?

What is your take on this?

Because 400-500 is expected - but if hes' reading the wrong part of the scale ... hmmm?


I want to know what you think...

 

[Robb]

We've seen guys come on the forum and wonder why their amp/radio is showing more watts than the amp is capable of. Turns out, that the RF is leaking into the DC feed to the amp and skews the readings of the meter - regardless of what brand it is.

Said too many times on this thread, but it bears repeating - you cannot get more watts out of an amp than you are feeding it with from a small supply. It's just a physical impossibility.
Example: 40 amp supply at 13.8v can provide no more than 552 watts MAX (since multiplying volts times amps equals watts; just the facts). Soooo; then how can a four pill 2879 get more than 500w? ANS: you CAN'T.

 

[Handy Andy]

I agree, and if you look around - you can buy Kits from Bird and make your own metering system.

So again are we looking at a kit, comboozled SWR mis-mash going on?

I just though the "fishy" part was to use tie off the Power, coax line together BEFORE the install was complete?

Note the black zip-tie and the "foreshortening" on the powerwires - gets REALLY big in close to the camera lens - looks "wrong" but I can't put my finger on it...

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that just about anyone can make something appear better than it is. So the rest of us have to be aware of the simple physics of the problem and Robb is right...unless you have a Flux Capacitor laying out in a desk drawer somewhere...

 

[TheRealPorkchop]

So I guess I’ll have to buy one and prove it’s not so, wonder what the return policy on that will be? I wonder what’s happening when guys get them things and they don’t see those numbers?

 

[Handy Andy]

This is what and why it doesn't settle too well with me...

Too many vids talk about "patch cords and loss wattage due to bad patch cord and poor selection of coax length jumpers" - ok again an SWR issue...

Look close at all what I've seen so far...he uses adapters everywhere...


The meter is a kit made into a dual meter - but only one side he wants you to see. You can buy a Stainless steel case made for it - but Bird doesn't sell the enclosure in the vids as an all-in one - if they did - they'd have their brand all over it....it's a kit...



Note the zip tie - in one he uses black - another, ones used in the install is white (two actually one further down) and again another adapter.


Now forgive me if I've been under a rock - but adapters usually inject a loss of a dB or two on their own - so to "see" 800 or so watts seems to be a little - well er - phony...



Ok, again slam me, but over 4 winds per combiner for the base inputs? What are we doing here...this is a comp amp not a simple drop in - not a little hi I'm out here now - type of install...

Ok, I'm all for one on the issue of working together to make the hobby what it is. The wonderful thing about Youtube is it's open platform - you can post anything you want...I'm not against someone showing how to install stuff and make it your own.

Speechprocessor 101 - bury the story...

Where I draw the line is in the fine print they don't tell you - the stuff that is kept out of the focus of the cameras' unforgiving lens...

Caveat Emptor - means just that - all these people get charged for vids showing off their works. What they need more help to know, is how to interpret the show correctly.



What is really sad, is he never showed how to tune the amp to the radio ... SIGH....

I'm not against a fair value for work done on a job, a man needs to be paid what he has earned, nothing less. But the guy whom is paying him, has to realize that this money show - is just that - a show. I only hope the rest of us don't take these vids too seriously and we need to stay calm - someone else's' money is being used here. As it gains only interest and bad judgments.

We all end up paying for it eventually...
:+> Andy <+:

 

[ExitThirteen]

Handy Andy,

You touched up on the harmonics factor with the wattmeter, and the slug he was using in it... *ding ding* we have a winnah!

Note the slug frequency range.... 25-60mhz... guess where the next order harmonic would be? Yep, approximately 54mhz. So, that being said, that meter is likely picking up the 27mhz base frequency.... AND the 54mhz harmonics too. BAM! There's your "extra" wattage.

I can guarantee that he does not have clean output. Guaranteed there's spurious emissions all over the place. The 63FFC4 bottom is NOT biased class AB for SSB use. They are only biased class B, with about .32V at the bases of the transistors. So the output based on that alone tells the story.


More junk being put out that shouldn't be.... it's an embarrassment.


~Cheers~