Dave Made m400 or Xforce TNT T1200LD-M

[bassman21]

Have a Dave Made M400 with 1 Toshiba 2879 driving 4 Toshiba 2879 that I just installed. It's doing about 750 and I'm getting good reports. The RMS on my meter is showing around 300. I though they may not be able to get the Toshiba's so I ordered the Xforce TNT T1200LD-M. It has two PP80's driving 6 PP100's (their DEI replacements). The Dave Made is class C and the TNT will be class B. The TNT has sideband delay and a preamp. It will be used on AM mostly and most preamps are a waste, neither is that important. I figure the TNT will do around 1000 to 1100. I know about having to double your wattage to notice a difference. Which one do you think will sound better and louder? Do you think I should cancel the TNT order before it ships or should I get it and sell the Dave Made? I was think about keeping both for future use. Because the Dave Made has Toshiba's I know it will be worth some money.

BTW I don't care to hear "that is illegal" or people bashing class C amps. This amp is actually pretty clean and draws the same as my Texas Star that did less than 500.

 

[543_Dallas]

Better and louder is really going to depend on the radio and how it's set up. Going from a 4 to a 6 pill isn't much of an improvement.

If I were going to upgrade I'd go with a 2x8 but can your power supply/charging system take the load? If this is for a base I'd get something with 2 tubes or less that will produce the power you're looking for.

 

[space cowboy]

BTW I don't care to hear "that is illegal" or people bashing class C amps. This amp is actually pretty clean and draws the same as my Texas Star that did less than 500.

good thing you're reading then, can't hear a thing. clean doesn't mean how it sounds, it's about spurious emmisions outside your broadcast freq.

Ten kilowatts of class AB with filtering will not cause as much crap on the bands as even 500 watts of class C crap. Most people cannot understand that as they have no clue nor desire to know the difference. All they can understand is that if they are wiping out the band then they must be getting out good. Others simply want to be the dominator of the bands and due to their own ego and mental issues have a need to deprive others in order to make themselves feel superior. I have no problem with someone running power as long as it is clean and the reason for running power is not so they can disrupt others.

 

[BBB]

Both are built on a time tested proven design platform. Power Pills are still on a test curve in my opinion. Toshibas have a well proven track record. Doubt the TNT is B class... No big deal just an added delay for SSB.

I would lean towards the Toshiba powered unit but have an open mind so my final choice would be made after I saw them on a spectrum analyzer. Maybe you know someone who has one you could borrow for a day or there are plenty of companies that rent them on the web. Doesn't need to be a 30$K unit. Just a beater lab unit good to 1GHz with a 50 ohm telescopic antenna on the input BNC connector would do.

Since the amps are probably about the same power wise, I would pick the one that made the least spurs at a comfortable max power situation. Less spurs = more power where you want it anyway and things run cooler for better longevity

 

[BBB]

Although I may be inclined to take the amp that goes to 11...

 

[jessejamesdallas]

Just throwing this out there...I have a 1x4 X Force base amp, and it does what your DM 1x4 is doing (750 peak, 300RMS) and can hold my own with the guys doing 1000-1100 peak just fine...Doubt anyone is going to be able to tell the difference between 750 and 1100w's on the receiving end....

 

[Road Squawker]

.... This amp is actually pretty clean and draws the same as my Texas Star that did less than 500.

Gee, I wonder why

 

[DJboutit]

TNT since it has SSB

 

[CbRadiosPRONTO]

That's easy, TNT1200. It's not even close...for so many reasons.

 

[CbRadiosPRONTO]

wait...that a 2x6, not an 8 pill. Let me rethink that.

Yeah, still the TNT.

 

[bassman21]

That's easy, TNT1200. It's not even close...for so many reasons.

What reasons would that be?

 

[222DBFL]

Not sure what your intentions are, but if it were me I would send the 1x4 DM amp to a good amp guy that can turn it into a class AB bias with thermal tracking. Also get a clean radio like a uniden 880 or 980 and use that to drive the amp with. You might loose some watts on the meter, but your signal will be way cleaner. Send it to Crusher and let him do the work, you won't be disappointed. That is JMO.

 

[bassman21]

I just hooked my swing modded Cobra 25 LTD Classic up and I'm getting 1200 watts pep according to my Dosy Center meter. My Lincoln II only does 13 watts pep with a one watt dead key. The Cobra does just over 20. I used the same meter to test with the Lincoln. SWR's are 1.5 with the box on. Needless to say I'm very happy. I'm going to test it on a different meter as soon as I can. I highly doubt I'm getting that much out of it with 14 volts, but wouldn't it be something if I was

 

[222DBFL]

I can see the inflated numbers but how mant channels or freqs is it bleeding and resonating on. The Lincoln was a is a better option for driving an amp with a driver section already built in. You want the least amount of power as possible TBO, not more. With a1 driving 4, you probably need a .5-1 watt dead key and 6-10 watts max pep. 13 watts is close enough. All you are doing with driving it harder is sending your Toshiba transistors to an early grave and they don't make those anymore!! Keep the Input drive as low as possible and stop looking at the watt meter so much. You'll find you aren't gaining one bit to a receiving station by going from 500 to 1000 or even 1200 watts. For 1 s-unit of increase the power has to quadruple. That means from 500 watts to 2000 watts and so on. Why kill the amp that will last you a lot longer and most likely sound better by not over driving it. If you want to run 20 watts or more into an amp I suggest a straight 4 pill. JMHO.

 

[bassman21]

I can see the inflated numbers but how mant channels or freqs is it bleeding and resonating on. The Lincoln was a is a better option for driving an amp with a driver section already built in. You want the least amount of power as possible TBO, not more. With a1 driving 4, you probably need a .5-1 watt dead key and 6-10 watts max pep. 13 watts is close enough. All you are doing with driving it harder is sending your Toshiba transistors to an early grave and they don't make those anymore!! Keep the Input drive as low as possible and stop looking at the watt meter so much. You'll find you aren't gaining one bit to a receiving station by going from 500 to 1000 or even 1200 watts. For 1 s-unit of increase the power has to quadruple. That means from 500 watts to 2000 watts and so on. Why kill the amp that will last you a lot longer and most likely sound better by not over driving it. If you want to run 20 watts or more into an amp I suggest a straight 4 pill. JMHO.

I partially agree with you. You don't want to overdrive any amp for many reasons. Those Dave Made 1X4 however are made to run at 1000 in the corner. That is why they have a large fan on them and are built like a tank. 1200 is over driving it, if my meter is correct. 800 is what I generally plan on running it at. I ran a locally built 2 2290s driving 4 2879's back in the late 90s here in Houston. It did 800 watts at 14 volts. I never had any problems with it and it got out very good. It crushed my Texas Star DX 400 it replaced. Just as I notice a lot more people answering me in DX land with this Dave Made vs my Texas Star DX 500.

I have read this quadruple stuff before. That is talking about audio being perceived as twice a loud to the human ear and not S unit. When you double your wattage, you are gaining 3 db's. 3 db's equal one S unit. This is even on the current Technician ham test. I was getting just under 500 with my old box. If I'm getting 1200 now that is a big jump. There is a reason why some CBer are heard and have a hard time being walked on.

I got into this hobby when I was 11 years old in the late 80s and over the years we ran all sorts of test from bases and mobile, with many different amps, antenna's and radios. Someone running 1000 watts will crush someone running 500 with the same antenna setup and same radio. If the amp has a high RMS, you will get a strong carrier. One difference is if you're running 1000 watts, you can run a higher dead key without losing audio, which will make you strong and more solid. It will be RMS wattage too and not PEP wattage.

My box back in the 90s, mobile to mobile would put people in the red 20 miles away. The Texas Star I had before that could barley be heard at the same location. When I upgraded from a MOSFIT Midnight Special to my current Texas Star I just replaced, people noticed a big jump even though I only doubled my wattage. This amp so far is hitting people that could not hear me before several miles away. Telling people that a 500 watt amp will do them just as well as a 1000 is wrong. I think many here can attest to this.