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ELKIN AMPS - MISSING SOMETHING?

Sonar

Sr. Member
Apr 8, 2016
1,501
1,016
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I've read a bit about the Elkin amplifiers and the Carolina Builder that originated them. If I'm correct they are known for having low dead Key but lots of Swing. I've also read for a CB amplifier there actually fairly well designated with a very interesting tube configuration. There's something I never noticed about them until today. While looking at photos of the smallest to the biggest (older case style) I noticed something I never had before. No fans! Why? Does it have something to do with the type of tubes that Elkin used in most of his older amplifiers. I don't recall the tube number but I know they're not your run-of-the-mill 6lf6, 6KD6, 6lq6. Is there something about the tubes Elkin used that keeps them at a no fan necessary low temperature? Or is the tube by Design one which does not create much heat? I have seen Elkins with fans in them. But all the ones that I have obviously look like they were put there after the original build/purchase. Most of the fans that I have seen in photos of Elkins look to be like they were not even around at the time these amplifiers were built. You know the type. Computer type X-Force, Dave made plastic Chinese imports. Many of the fans I've seen in Elkins don't even seem to be bolted but Velcroed in. What's the deal? 73
 

Tubes generate heat by nature. Lots of heat is generated by an amplifier according to the laws of physics. Amps that have no fans are built according to the laws of economics ie. as cheaply as possible. Obviously the amps needed fans hence the after market addition of them. Running an amp with very low dead key and lots of swing helps keep heat down but does in no way eliminate it and the harder it is pushed the more heat it creates.
 
Somebody owed me money and gave one to me and I sold it for 250 bucks because it was totally worthless. It worked but it was a splatterbox. I definitely wouldn't recommend one of these things if you want to stay out of trouble.
DSCN5708.JPG DSCN5707.JPG DSCN5706.JPG DSCN5705.JPG
 
Somebody owed me money and gave one to me and I sold it for 250 bucks because it was totally worthless. It worked but it was a splatterbox. I definitely wouldn't recommend one of these things if you want to stay out of trouble.
View attachment 20944 View attachment 20945 View attachment 20946 View attachment 20947
This Elkin is a later version of the style/type I referred to in my OP. Is it fact that the one you've pictuured doesn't have a fan either? If that's the case I'm beginning to think (Ray) the designer and builder had reasons beyond saving money by not adding fans to his amps.
Concidering the tubes Elkin used are still produced and are probably the cheapest sweep tube out there @ $9 - $12. And might've cost a couple of dollars back in the day.
Maybe Ray (Elkin) figured the tubes I use are so cheap I'll delete any fan and make extra money by selling my no fan amplifier tubes to people who will inevitably be needing them often depending on how the owner run their amplifiers. 73
PS I'm hoping someone with extensive knowledge of Elkin amps and their "radical design" to step up and give me an answer to why fans weren't included in these amplifiers.
Ray (Elkin) seems to be sort of a legend down south. Especially in North Carolina where I believe Elkins were built and the Builder designer still holds court. I don't believe he (Ray) excepts mail ins, but if you own and need it repaired, restored or whatever and want him to do it, according to online sources it's possible. Actually according to those same sources it's not only possible but a given.
I'm guessing there are people on this fourm who can quench my curiosity as to the deletion of any type of cooling fan in, or on Elkins. 73
 
I have seen 1 Kw AM broadcast transmitters with only a single fan in the top of the cabinet to expell hot air while cooler air enters from several screened openings but there was still a fan. If the Elkins had a screened opening above AND below the tubes perhaps he was relying on convection to help cool it but IMO and experiance with tubes fans are the proper way to do it. Then again there was a rare tube used in an old Heath amp that was conduction cooled. YUP it had a flat spot that bolted to a heatsink. I can't remember the tube type or the amp at the moment.
 
Nothin' says "Pimp" like a bunch of Chrome....

If it was splattering, it was being over-driven...
That wasn't the problem though the problem was 8 tubes not working in unison creating intermodulation distortion. I'm sure with some creative engineering somebody could adjust the bias voltage to each individual tube to make it cleaner but that's a lot more work than I was willing to put into it for such a small amplifier.
 
This Elkin is a later version of the style/type I referred to in my OP. Is it fact that the one you've pictuured doesn't have a fan either? If that's the case I'm beginning to think (Ray) the designer and builder had reasons beyond saving money by not adding fans to his amps.
Concidering the tubes Elkin used are still produced and are probably the cheapest sweep tube out there @ $9 - $12. And might've cost a couple of dollars back in the day.
Maybe Ray (Elkin) figured the tubes I use are so cheap I'll delete any fan and make extra money by selling my no fan amplifier tubes to people who will inevitably be needing them often depending on how the owner run their amplifiers. 73
PS I'm hoping someone with extensive knowledge of Elkin amps and their "radical design" to step up and give me an answer to why fans weren't included in these amplifiers.
Ray (Elkin) seems to be sort of a legend down south. Especially in North Carolina where I believe Elkins were built and the Builder designer still holds court. I don't believe he (Ray) excepts mail ins, but if you own and need it repaired, restored or whatever and want him to do it, according to online sources it's possible. Actually according to those same sources it's not only possible but a given.
I'm guessing there are people on this fourm who can quench my curiosity as to the deletion of any type of cooling fan in, or on Elkins. 73
There was no fan in this amplifier and If I had to make a recommendation I would recommend purchasing an amplifier with a single large tube as opposed to eight tiny tubes.
 
There was no fan in this amplifier and If I had to make a recommendation I would recommend purchasing an amplifier with a single large tube as opposed to eight tiny tubes.
There weren't many amplifiers of that era that offered a single large tube. The Pride DX 300? A 200b isn't exactly a large tube. Although I would take one of those amplifiers over many of the other major companies that produced tube amplifiers during the CB craze. As far as using a modern HF amplifier with a single large tube would be nice on SSB but from what I've heard AM isn't something they had in mind when building them and they normally don't work or sound well on that mode. CW and SSB is where they shine. So I'm told. There were some older CB craze era amplifiers like the Texas Walker with a single or couple of very large tubes in them but all of these amplifiers are problematic. Mostly due to age VB and no attention to design beyond output. I've learned that they are for the most part nothing more than money pits. If the old DNA, palyomar ECT ECT ect are amplifiers and the like are recapped cleaned rebuilt and have everything done to them that one could do to bring them back to their original first day brand new open box condition then one might possibly have a decent amp. On the other hand they are just not worth it. I've been there and done that and still do. My reason for doing so is that I like the look of the older equipment. That's about it. Mine set up sounds okay for what it is. Nothing special But have been told it sounds better than most modern transceivers and amplifiers of the 11 Meter type of course. If you can work on your own equipment you're in good shape. If you can't You better be ready to dish out some money period and no matter how much you dish out you're just not going to have any type of quality when coming to this type of equipment. Especially amplifiers of the CB craze era. I read a little bit about those BM amplifiers with single double or quad tryouts in them period but without doing any research I could honestly say I've little doubt they're nothing special period especially for the prices that they are asking and obviously getting from some. I bet a dollar for every dime that not many people have purchased those BM amplifiers period I've never heard one on air. I've never even heard someone saying they've heard one. And I've obviously never heard someone saying that they're great amplifiers. Not even good amplifiers. It's quite a quandary. The sb220 is a great amplifier used by many Chicken banders but not on A.M. at least that's what I read I do not own or operate one myself but I can say their reputation definitely proceeds any Heathkit amplifier ever made. I guess there's only a few things one can do in order to have a nice sounding single sideband station and an AM one. And that is to get two stations one for a.m. one for single Side Band. What would members suggest for an AM SSB transceiver and amp that will sound well on both modes? 11 meters of course. It's what I'm taking about at least. Most ticket holders us SSB first then CW, and I assume lastly some type of psk data thingey. I obviously know little to nothing about the HS bands because I am a chicken Bander. Sorry for being so for Being verbose. My interest and reply to RP is what would be a excellent amplifier for SSP and AM. Modern or old time back in the day type apps. Which would you choose. And why. I should also mention that price has to be a factor. I'm sure there are HF amplifiers that will sound good in any mode on any band if you're going to have to pay $8,000 Plus for them. I'm talking in the 1000 to $1,500 range. What do you say? 73 have a great weekend
 
If an amp works on SSB it will work fine on AM. The sound issue is with the radio driving the amp or the operator not hwving a clue about how much harder AM is on an amp and it's power supply versus SSB. Far FAR too many chicken banders think a 1 Kw amp should throw a 1Kw carrier and THEN modulate it. 99% of the time that is the reason a decent SSB amp sounds crappy on AM.
 
There weren't many amplifiers of that era that offered a single large tube. The Pride DX 300? A 200b isn't exactly a large tube. Although I would take one of those amplifiers over many of the other major companies that produced tube amplifiers during the CB craze. As far as using a modern HF amplifier with a single large tube would be nice on SSB but from what I've heard AM isn't something they had in mind when building them and they normally don't work or sound well on that mode. CW and SSB is where they shine. So I'm told. There were some older CB craze era amplifiers like the Texas Walker with a single or couple of very large tubes in them but all of these amplifiers are problematic. Mostly due to age VB and no attention to design beyond output. I've learned that they are for the most part nothing more than money pits. If the old DNA, palyomar ECT ECT ect are amplifiers and the like are recapped cleaned rebuilt and have everything done to them that one could do to bring them back to their original first day brand new open box condition then one might possibly have a decent amp. On the other hand they are just not worth it. I've been there and done that and still do. My reason for doing so is that I like the look of the older equipment. That's about it. Mine set up sounds okay for what it is. Nothing special But have been told it sounds better than most modern transceivers and amplifiers of the 11 Meter type of course. If you can work on your own equipment you're in good shape. If you can't You better be ready to dish out some money period and no matter how much you dish out you're just not going to have any type of quality when coming to this type of equipment. Especially amplifiers of the CB craze era. I read a little bit about those BM amplifiers with single double or quad tryouts in them period but without doing any research I could honestly say I've little doubt they're nothing special period especially for the prices that they are asking and obviously getting from some. I bet a dollar for every dime that not many people have purchased those BM amplifiers period I've never heard one on air. I've never even heard someone saying they've heard one. And I've obviously never heard someone saying that they're great amplifiers. Not even good amplifiers. It's quite a quandary. The sb220 is a great amplifier used by many Chicken banders but not on A.M. at least that's what I read I do not own or operate one myself but I can say their reputation definitely proceeds any Heathkit amplifier ever made. I guess there's only a few things one can do in order to have a nice sounding single sideband station and an AM one. And that is to get two stations one for a.m. one for single Side Band. What would members suggest for an AM SSB transceiver and amp that will sound well on both modes? 11 meters of course. It's what I'm taking about at least. Most ticket holders us SSB first then CW, and I assume lastly some type of psk data thingey. I obviously know little to nothing about the HS bands because I am a chicken Bander. Sorry for being so for Being verbose. My interest and reply to RP is what would be a excellent amplifier for SSP and AM. Modern or old time back in the day type apps. Which would you choose. And why. I should also mention that price has to be a factor. I'm sure there are HF amplifiers that will sound good in any mode on any band if you're going to have to pay $8,000 Plus for them. I'm talking in the 1000 to $1,500 range. What do you say? 73 have a great weekend
Chris Smit @ BM Technologies makes nice class a/b tube amps.

 
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