• You can now help support WorldwideDX when you shop on Amazon at no additional cost to you! Simply follow this Shop on Amazon link first and a portion of any purchase is sent to WorldwideDX to help with site costs.

Base Marconi's Sigma4 vs. Gain Master Signal Report and video.

Marconi

Usually if I can hear em' I can talk to em'.
Oct 23, 2005
7,235
2,324
343
Houston
Here his my YouTube video of this comparison test and the on air Signal Report I did later that day with a few local buddies that were talking on channel 39 lower sideband.

Here we also hear a story about Russel's "Rain Crow Filter." Just a note for myself.

 

Attachments

  • Signal Report 020311Sigma4 vs. Gain Master.pdf
    457.9 KB · Views: 13
  • Like
Reactions: Ferrarimx5

As I understand the ALC on this radio is not adjustable with a function button. I've never attempted to adjust the ALC. It is as it came from the factory.

It may be controlled via a function in a menu...but I have never messed with that either. As I understand this function the bars should not extend past the bar above, but as we see occasionally go out to the end as I talk.

Here is a video of another operator on his 570D and we see the ALC function working about the same as we see on my video plus he is running pretty heavy compression. I will check this out further just to be sure.



Thanks for the tip, though.
 
Last edited:
ALC is not supposed to be adjustable Eddie, its preset internally or via a service menue, you keep the ALC within range by lowering your mic input level,

570's and all kenwoods since the TS870 sound like a pumpy old cassete recorder with no dynamic range due to the horrible DSP in the TX,

endscaling the ALC is the brute force and ignorance method of making an already flat sounding rig sound even worse.

like two antenna tests, other people doing dumb things on YOUTUBE does not make it right.
 
Bob, I posted that the ALC is not adjustable from the front of the radio.

I just went to YouTube to see if I could find another 570 that looked to show the ALC scale working and this video is what I found in response to w9cll's advice. I could turn the mic gain down a little for sure.

Actually I have never messed with any of the menu settings as best I recall. The mic is set at 50% right now and that may be a little hot. I use the non-amplified hand mic that came with the radio and I've never found I need to use the processor but I see it on at times in my videos.

I turned the mic down to 30% and the ALC meter responded about the same. I went to 15% before the ALC lowered. I can only guess the audio might have dropped some too.

When I got the radio I tested it for the mic setting and clicked on the compression switch with a couple of buddies. They said the radio sounded great and nothing I did during that setup made a big difference according to them. I have never heard the radio on air except in a video recording. I have heard other 570's and they sounded very nice to me, but I'm not a radio experts.

Here is what I sound like on this radio about 9 minutes into the video Marconi broadcasting from Houston to 4040 (rip) in SanFrancisco
 
Last edited:
Bob, I posted that the ALC is not adjustable from the front of the radio.

I just went to YouTube to see if I could find another 570 that looked to show the ALC scale working and this video is what I found so I posted it.

Actually I have never messed with any of the menu settings as best I recall. The mic is set at 50% and that may be a little hot and I use the hand mic that came with the radio.

I turned it down to 30% and the ALC meter responded the same. When I got the radio I tested it for the mic setting and clicked on the processor switch with a couple of buddies. They said the radio sounded great and the nothing I did during that setup made a big difference. I have never hear the radio, but I have heard other 570's and they sounded very nice to me.

I don't know what else I can say. I try and show you guys what I do and I have taken some heat in the process. So, here is what the radio sounds like in my voice talking to 4040, Marconi broadcasting from Houston to 4040 (rip) in SanFrancisco.
 
Last edited:
The ALC meter is a meter that shows how much limiting the ALC circuit is having to do because you're over-driving the input Marconi. If its set correctly it should show nothing at all other than a slight flicker on voice peaks.

How to set your radio up properly for SSB TX.

1) Either use an external power meter that has peak hold or use a tone generator app on your phone to generate a constant tone around 1kHz at normal speaking volume level.

2) Set the TX power to 100W.

3) Set Mic Gain to 0. Yes zero as in none, off, nil, nada, zilch. Turn PROC off.

3) Start transmitting, either talking if you've the power meter or by playing the tone with the phone at the normal distance you hold your mike from your mouth.

4) Increase the mic gain and continue to increase it until your power meter is showing 100W on peaks.

Congratulations you've just correctly set up your radio for transmitting in SSB and I bet that the mic gain is somewhere around 25% at most. Increasing the mic gain will not provide any benefit. It will not make you sound louder, it'll just make your signal wider and dirtier. Reducing it does not make you sound quieter in SSB, it just decreases peak TX power. In fact when I used to do real QRP below 1W I used reducing mic gain as a method of reducing TX power. Nobody ever said I sounded quiet even the 5/7 report I got from Argentina 7500 miles away with 1W or the 5/5 report I got from Italy, 1200 miles away with 250mW.

I also noticed that you have the pre-amp on. Turn it off because your background noise level is S5 with it on. Without the pre-amp on if your S meter is showing anything other than S0-S1 background noise you don't want to be turning the pre-amp on because you don't actually benefit from anything and in fact you lose out as you decrease the dynamic range of the radio. In fact what you'd normally do is use the RF gain to REDUCE gain when you have a reading on the S meter on an empty frequency. On a CB you'd do it until the meter showed S0, on a ham radio because of the way the S meter works you would do it until the S meter went up fractionally then back it off a little. Yes stations will sound quieter but you increase the AF Gain/Volume to compensate and weaker signals will be easier to copy because the unwanted noise is attenuated more than wanted signals. You don't increase RF gain either by winding the RF gain up or turning on a preamp because all you do is increase the unwanted background noise and you don't actually make weak signals more copyable as a result.

Unfortunately like the ALC meter being right over, having RF gain whacked up to 11 and pre-amps on seems to be one of those bad practices that has somehow found its way into the "correct way to do things" even though it actually is the polar opposite of what you want to be doing. Pre-amps are completely pointless on HF because the noise floor on the quietest place on planet earth on the quietest HF band, 10m, is -120dBm (the level of galactic noise) which is S1 and your radio is capable of hearing well below that without the pre-amp on. Pre-amps only have benefit on VHF and higher where the noise floor is considerably lower. Incidentally the reason that CB receiver specs show SINAD at -120dBm is because that is the level of galactic noise on 11m so any weaker signals will be drowned out by the QRM from space.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: bob85 and Marconi
Over time I have noticed my videos had the Pre-Amp on most of the times I had the Processor on as well. I knew better, I just wasn't thinking at the time.

At some point looking at these old videos, spring and summer 2011, with the 570D I realize as we see in this case the meter was showing the mic output in the high range and banging the limit, but the videos were done and I could not change or duplicate what was shown.

In the beginning I did some testing of the switches on my new radio. If I had setup the radio right...maybe I would have even seen results more similar to the reports I have been questioning all this time. However with that said, I still saw about the same signals on my CB with the analog meter so maybe that is why I was liberal with my 570D settings. I know you guys are right though...I wish I had it to do over.

M0GVZ, I appreciate your well meaning criticism as instructive and I thank you and the others that have commented here. Special thanks to w9cll for bring the issue to light.
 
Last edited:
Glad you took it as instructive, it was certainly the way I was trying to put it across because as I mentioned in my post bad practice has found its way to becoming the way its done, something not helped by user manuals telling you you should be seeing something on the ALC meter most of the way across the section with the bar above/below it.
 
The guy in the video from Australia who had a 570D showing a similar ALC response, probably did just like I did and never checked out the operations manual for details. I have used it as a reference a few times however.

If I get lucky and can find somebody local that will test the idea with me...I will get an audio report and see how 15 on the dial works out. That is where I see the ALC just barely moving to maybe 3 bars for sure. See, I've been working that radio for maybe 8 years more or less...and none of my buds ever made a comment that the radio sounded like crap and was over modulating or too loud.

I think the radio probably came with some kind of default setup and that result may be common as it comes. Except for my testing in the beginning...I don't recall ever messing with the mic gain. In fact, I had to check the radio over and to my surprise there is a mic control and I found it set to 50 when I pushed the button.

Thanks again for your advice on controlling the ALC.
 

dxChat
Help Users
  • No one is chatting at the moment.
  • @ Wildcat27:
    Hello I have a old school 2950 receives great on all modes and transmits great on AM but no transmit on SSB. Does anyone have any idea?
  • @ ButtFuzz:
    Good evening from Sunny Salem! What’s shaking?
  • dxBot:
    63Sprint has left the room.