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Tallman

KW4YJ Honorary Member Silent Key
May 1, 2013
5,121
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Louisville, KY
The Doctor that was assaulted in Chicago lives and works in Elizabethtown, KY. I have followed this story with intense interest and have insider information that the press does not have access to. The Doctor did not behave badly until the assault was in progress. In the worse case scenario it could be called resisting arrest, but he was not being arrested. Just being forcibly removed from a flight he had every legal right to be on. He was not flying with what they called "Space Available" back in the day. U.S. Military would fly this way when going on leave. Not used when going from duty station to their next assignment.
You know united has a fleet of executive jets all over the place for their corporate executives to fly on.
I DO NOT understand why they did not just put them on one of those. Also these people and the airline know where these crews are going well in advance before they go off shift, so why weren't they in Louisville KY to start with???
These are just my thoughts.
 
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You're correct about him having every right to be on that plane. Someone in CS management made a very very bad decision that day and UA will literally pay for it.

In my time as an airline operations manager I had to make those kinds of decisions daily. That UA flight was not overbooked until they needed space to position a flight crew to Louisville. Positioning that crew could have been an on the fly decision due to another crew running out of flight time, re-positioning an airplane for maintenance, etc. There are many reasons for doing that.

If we needed volunteers to give up their seats and had to go onto the plane to solicit we always got people to volunteer by offering free round trip system wide tickets.or vouchers, other airline flights, etc. Sometimes you just have to get creative. I've also had to use my company credit card to buy tickets for re-positioning flight crews when we just couldn't get a paying passenger to give up their seat.

I never thought twice about calling the CPD (Mr Cicero over the airport PA) to a gate to bounce a drunk or seriously disruptive passenger from a plane but what they did to that doctor was just wrong any way you look at it.
 
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If I was reading the article correctly, wasn't the guy who was evicted from the flight actually removed by airport security, not actual UA employees?

Because, if that's correct, I'd be a little more upset at the airport, than at the airline.

Not to say that the airline couldn't have handled things better; they could have and should have, to be sure. But, the security force also could have done better.

The passenger, also, could have handled himself better. At the end of the day, United Airlines is a private company. He was ordered to disembark. He would have been refunded, or compensated for his inconvenience, or both. But, he refused to leave when ordered, and security was called.

The way I see it, all parties involved mishandled themselves to some degree. It's unfortunate; the airline comes off looking uncaring and incompetent, security comes off looking like self important, jackbooted thugs, and the passenger comes off like a spoiled, immature, and entitled brat.

This is just one more reason for me to avoid flying. I like airplane rides; I just hate airports, crowds, and people employed by airlines, airports, or the TSA. I also find many of the rules, policies, and regulations to be unacceptable. Flying sucked 10 years ago, when I last flew, and it seems to have, in general, gotten worse since then. I'll just stick with Greyhound, thanks. At least they make frequent stops, and I can get out to smoke.
 
If I was reading the article correctly, wasn't the guy who was evicted from the flight actually removed by airport security, not actual UA employees?
Does not matter because they were there at the request of United Airlines.
If you think about it, it was a robbery of the Doctor.
He paid for the seat and should have more than a reasonable expectation of arriving at his destination. I would have resisted as well. Don't take that the wrong way, I am all for law enforcement.
If someone came up to your car when you are driving and demanded that give it to them would you hand them the keys?
I know I would not.
 
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Does not matter because they were there at the request of United Airlines.
If you think about it, it was a robbery of the Doctor.
He paid for the seat and should have more than a reasonable expectation of arriving at his destination. I would have resisted as well. Don't take that the wrong way, I am all for law enforcement.
If someone came up to your car when you are driving and demanded that give it to them would you hand them the keys?
I know I would not.

Yes, security WAS there at the request of the airline, but I highly doubt that the outcome that manifested was the outcome expected. Suppose you had a neighbor that was playing his music a little too loud, a little too late at night, so you call the police. And the police showed up, kicked the neighbors door in, and just shot the stereo and the neighbor. Is the death of your neighbor your fault because you called the police on him? Of course not. Extreme analogy, I know. And, it only covers part of the situation; the calling of security. My guess is that the expected outcome was that the doctor would simply get off the plane when security asked him to.

I wouldn't equate this to robbery of the doctor, because he still would have been flown to his destination. He would have arrived late, but he would have been compensated for the inconvenience. This a not the same thing as a car jacking. In a carjacking, my car would be taken from me, with no value given to me in return. This would be closer to imminent domain, than a robbery. (Though, that's an imprecise comparison, too)

I'm not defending UA. They made bad decisions. What I am doing is stating my personal opinion (which is meaningless, in a legal sense) that EVERYONE was wrong, to some degree.

If UA really needed to clear some space for employees on that flight, it should have been done prior to boarding. The security force could probably benefit from training on how to interact with the general public; I'm also guessing that there may have been some miscommunication due to the accent of the doctor.

And, the doctor... I expect a doctor to handle disappointment in a more mature manner. I understand that he had somewhere important to be. Apparently, so did everyone else on board. He drew the short straw. It's not fair. But, a doctor, of all people, should have a very deep understanding of the unfairness of life. Frankly, after that performance, I would never be a patient of that doctor. And, if I were, I would find a new doctor, after that video went viral. A little calm reasoning, on his part, may well have kept him on board, injury free. Had he calmly explained to the stewardess that he understood the dilemma that faced the airline, but he was expected at a hospital for a serious medical situation, and here, would you please call this number, or have the pilot call, to verify.... The situation may never have gotten out of hand. Or, maybe he still would have been asked to depart the aircraft. I don't know; no one knows, and now it's impossible to find out.

It's all a moot point, to me. I refuse to put up with airports, so it's doubtful that I will ever find myself in an aircraft, again, anyway. At least, not on a commercial airliner.

I guess my point is, before we all crucify UA, let's consider how all parties involved could have handled things differently, and consider the points of view of everyone.
 
Yes, security WAS there at the request of the airline, but I highly doubt that the outcome that manifested was the outcome expected. Suppose you had a neighbor that was playing his music a little too loud, a little too late at night, so you call the police. And the police showed up, kicked the neighbors door in, and just shot the stereo and the neighbor. Is the death of your neighbor your fault because you called the police on him?


When my neighbors are misbehaving with their stereo I just fire up one of my ham radios and talk on SSB at full power and they turn the loud stereo off. United for whatever reason had singled the Doctor out for removal and requested the TSA to remove him. You are right that it could have been better handled by all parties.
For me and the wife personally we both prefer to drive versus flying. We don't just drive from point to point we take in sight seeing and activities along the way. We stop at places like "The Crater of Diamonds" In Arkansas or the air museum in Dayton Ohio.
 
Lmao. Just key up the mic, and sing "The Song That Never Ends" (y) I solved that problem by buying a house with no neighbors being too close.

Last time that I flew anywhere, I imagine that my experience was pretty normal for the day (about 10 years ago), and I still found the experience to be unacceptable to me, both from the airline (Jet-Blue, I think ) and from the various airports and TSA. So, I just don't fly. I'm actually attending a wedding on the other side of the country from me, next month; I'm fortunate enough, as a truck driver, to get paid to drive out there.:D
 
The doctor behaved like a punk.....oh wait this "Doctor" had his license to practice medicine revoked 2-3 times.
 
The doctor behaved like a punk.....oh wait this "Doctor" had his license to practice medicine revoked 2-3 times.
His license was suspended once that I know of. That still does not excuse the treatment he got. So the Dr. had problems adapting to the tightly regulated narcotics processes in the U.S.A. In a lot of countries almost everything is available over the counter
That still does not excuse the "Jack Boot Thugs" beating a 70 year old Oriental man because he did not want to give up his seat.
 
  • I'd like to know their selection process and how he became the one forced to give up his seat. United says it is based on a "need to fly" basis. I wonder how they figured he was lower priority than anyone else and I am sure someone on that flight did not have to be at work the following morning or something similar.
 
Mike Rowe has an opinion on this:

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/0...bacle-but-for-a-reason-some-might-not-expect/

Also, I can't find it now, but Dr. Dao is on video, telling the man with the badge that he refused to leave, and then he said, "you'll have to drag me off." Sooo.... they dragged him off. Thinking back on my own experience with various law enforcement officers, in years passed (and we already know that he has had his own interactions with law enforcement), the fact that they responded by actually dragging him off the plane should not be shocking. LEO don't much care for defiance, or ultimatums.
 
Mike Rowe has an opinion on this:

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/0...bacle-but-for-a-reason-some-might-not-expect/

Also, I can't find it now, but Dr. Dao is on video, telling the man with the badge that he refused to leave, and then he said, "you'll have to drag me off." Sooo.... they dragged him off. Thinking back on my own experience with various law enforcement officers, in years passed (and we already know that he has had his own interactions with law enforcement), the fact that they responded by actually dragging him off the plane should not be shocking. LEO don't much care for defiance, or ultimatums.
Yep been there too. One of my brothers was a cop and did not like it when anybody defied him. He threatened to put the cuffs on me and drag me outside and whip my back side. He wasn't a cop yet and I was a huge strapping teenager and did not like him to start with.(Bully) Needless to say he did not get the cuffs on me, drag me outside or whip my butt. I taught him a lesson that day he still has not forgot. It cost him a lot for picking on his "Little Punk" brother. Now I will obey a legitimate sworn in commissioned officers to the letter.
 

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