11 Meter Upgrade / Addition

[McHarley94]

Greetings All,

I presently have a Solarcon A99 that sits up about 30ft at the coax end, so about 48ft in total. The aluminum mast goes into the ground and is then secured to the peak of my barn at about 15ft up, (no gye wires just an 8ft copper ground at its base). I've never had a problem with wind as of yet. Up until recently I have mostly used this antenna for 10/11 meter DX which ATM works very well for this purpose.

That being said, in the past several months I have gotten to know several locals that meet up daily. A couple of them are just a few miles away where I of course have no problem, but several of them are more like 25-30 miles+. All of them are to the E / NE of me, even the close ones, and depending on the day the further ones and I have some difficulty making the trip.

As such I was thinking on improving my 11 meter antenna situation by adding something as simple as an inexpensive directional such as a Maco BA-1 and attach it horizantally to the mast just below the A99 and point it in their direction. Another thought was perhaps an M103C on either that mast with a rotor, which I have on the shelf, and mount the A99 right above it if that is even feasable. Yet another thought would be to move the A99 to a tripod mid roof or visa versa. I'd even consider maybe even an M103C-HV and eliminate the A99 all together. I realize wave polorization plays a part in this were I to stick with a single beam horizantally...I'm just not sure how much of an effect that would have at 30 miles...maybe a lot?

This is all preliminary at this point but I am hoping to erect something once it warms up a bit here in the midwest. I am open to any input I can obtain here even if it takes me in a totally different direction. Meanwhile I will keep on reading what others have posted in the past.

Kind Regards 73's

 

[murdog]

Your idea with the three element below the a 99 is a winner .

 

[Cable Guy]

That will work well as I have a a99 above a horizontal m103c. However, the beam won't help locally unless they (local stations)are horizontal as well. I use the a99 for local and some dx and the beam for DX only as everyone around here is vertical. YMMV. Good luck.

 

[McHarley94]

That will work well as I have a a99 above a horizontal m103c. However, the beam won't help locally unless they (local stations)are horizontal as well. I use the a99 for local and some dx and the beam for DX only as everyone around here is vertical. YMMV. Good luck.

TY for the reply, CB. Might I ask, would I be correct in assuming that the A99 and the M103c both rotate on the same rotor? This is what I was thinking on doing as I cant imagine a vertical would be affected from rotating it as well. This sure would make things easier if the M103C was horizontal, but I'm guessing mounting it vertically wouldn't work out so well being it would extend above the base of the A99 on the top side, and also if the pole was metal I would guess this would act somewhat as another element. Maybe mount the two antennas on something like a piece of fiberglass mast above the rotor. And would the coax from the vertical interfere with the beam? I'm obviously spit balling here to see what sticks, hence why I am asking questions rather than learn the hard way.

Your idea with the three element below the a 99 is a winner .

TY for your reply as well, murdog. Much appreciated!

 

[Cable Guy]

Might I ask, would I be correct in assuming that the A99 and the M103c both rotate on the same rotor?

That assumption would be correct sir.

 

[murdog]

Mount everything on the same mast you don't have to isolate anything no worries with the coax just get it up and have fun ! .

 

[McHarley94]

That assumption would be correct sir.

Nice Work! Looks well buttoned up. Love the tower too.

I edited my last post to add a couple questions and now I'm thinking that was probably not a wise idea and will refrain from doing so in the future.

Anyways, TY for taking the time to take and post a photo of your setup. I'm not sure what all the guys talk on as of yet (i.e. vertical or horizontal), but if I had to guess I'd say most would be on either a vertical omni or a vertical beam, but I will be asking them in the days ahead

 

[McHarley94]

So after some further discussion with the locals most have they beams mounted vertically, so I'm guessing I'll need to do the same which I assume means I'll have to seperate the A99 an M104 or Sirio SY-4, which are the two 4 elements I am considering ATM unless someone has a better option I should be considering.

Also, I've done a little more research on the net and am still getting mixed reviews regarding the aluminum mast as well as the coax interfering with a vertical element beam configuration. For the love of God, surely this concept is not a new one. I am just wanting to do this the correct, and most advantagious way for local coms.

And lastely, I presently have RG-8X running to the A99. I also have LMR-400 running to a Diamond X50A for my 2M which sits about 8ft off to the side of the A99 at present. Would I be better served to use something like LMR-400 or DRF-400 for the 4 element over RG-8X as well or will RG-8X do the job for the 4 element?

So at the risk of beating a dead horse I have come here asking for advise again.
Looking forward to further input.

Thanks, and 73's

 

[BC Coyote]

the locals most have they beams mounted vertically,

Vertical beam polarization works great for local communication, but if you are at all interested in working DX the beam will need to be horizontal for best results!

 

[McHarley94]

Vertical beam polarization works great for local communication, but if you are at all interested in working DX the beam will need to be horizontal for best results!

TYVM for your reply BC Coyote. I have both the A99 and an EFHW-7510 along with a Yaesu HF that I can use for DX which in all intents and purpose does the job for me in that regard. My intent with the setup I am inquiring about here is to simply work locals within about 50 miles or so on 11 meter SSB and the A99 falls short.

 

[sp5it]

There are 2 issues you need to deal with.
1. Low antenna height. 30ft is nothing regarding long communication range on ground wave.
2. Crap antenna. Antron 99 is pure junk.

Get decent aluminium vertical and put it higher.
Directional antenna for local talk will be pain.

30mi is easy-peasy. I do that from my car.
Mike

 

[unit_399]

Mike-
I don't want to start a sh*t storm here, but why do you say the A99," is pure junk." I know many operators (myself included) who use an A99 with excellent results. In my case, mounting it at 36' above ground at the antenna base worked best. What are your reasons for dissing this antenna ??

- J.J. 399

 

[sp5it]

Mike-
I don't want to start a sh*t storm here, but why do you say the A99," is pure junk." I know many operators (myself included) who use an A99 with excellent results. In my case, mounting it at 36' above ground at the antenna base worked best. What are your reasons for dissing this antenna ??

- J.J. 399

I use electric fence as antenna with excellent results, but it doesn't make it decent antenna.
Why Antron 99 (Imax2000) is crap was elaborated on that forum with measurements and EzNec simulations. No fairy tales, just ruthless physics.
Mike

 

[McHarley94]

There are 2 issues you need to deal with.
1. Low antenna height. 30ft is nothing regarding long communication range on ground wave.
2. Crap antenna. Antron 99 is pure junk.

Get decent aluminium vertical and put it higher.
Directional antenna for local talk will be pain.

30mi is easy-peasy. I do that from my car.
Mike

Yeah, I was aware that the A99 was an entry level antenna when I threw it up there, which was right after J6. I was into CB's as a young lad but lost interest once I got into cars and women, but all the uncertainty as of late rekindled my interest into radio. From there one thing led to another and I now have my general and an HF as well.

I concur that height is a strong factor and I also agree that an omni directional upgrade would in all likelihood benefit my situation. The question is which would be most beneficial towards what I am trying to accomplish?

At this point, based on further research, I have nixed the SY-4 from the equation but the M104c mounted vertically mid roof and leaving the A99 of to the side is still being contemplated as an option. The idea of blocking out signals from the sides and behind appeals to my goal. That being said, I am beginning to wonder which would be the better option bang for buck, as well as effort.

If I were to opt for just replacing the A99 with another omni directional would you have any solid recommendations, Mike (or anyone else)? I'd consider this if I felt confident a new omni would accomplish my goal. it sure would make things easier. But hey, maybe I could buy both and if I found that a new omni accomplished my goal I could put the M104 under it and use it for DX...and there goes the budget.

Anywho, this is why I am doing some research before I dig myself a hole, so all this input is being taken into consideration in making my final decision.

Much Appreciated...

 

[Henry HPSD]

Hello,

The differences between the MACO 104 and Sirio SY-4 can be found here.


The Maco has a longer boom length, hence it will have more gain.
With that said, the overal antenna pattern of the Sirio is better.
(The maco could have an up-grade).

Mechanical the elements are rather similair, perhaps a bit thin...but if your not in a "hurricane" hot spot...it is sufficient to last for years.
I do believe the boom of the MACO was a lot better compared to the Sirio, but ill need to look that up.
And i can impagine additional back-up materials will be easier to find for the maco since the Sirio uses "metric" diameters ...not sure what is availible in your area.

What BC coyote pointed out is true...
For DX horizontal is the clear winner.
This is due to the additonal ground gain and lower take-off angle compared to vertical. Higher (for horizontal beams) is always better.
More information can be found here.


As SP5IT is, im a fan of aluminium too.
It could be an option to just place a 5/8 wave directly on top of your beam without radials ...the beam will act as them.
(This option is described several time on the forum here, so theres probarbly some info around).

ALways use an RF-Choke. Location and how to instal them is important.
Some hints are here.

Often those common mode currents are responsible for degration of the performance.

Im not a to happy about putting a single beam vertical. Two beams next to each other or a Cubical Quad is the best way to go for vertical beams..as otherwise the metal mast WILL have negative influence. Not saying it wont work...but you can count on it it wont have maximum performance.

Hope it is of use...

Kind regards

Henry