102ss Whip for Base Use

[R.P. Coletrain]

Right now I'm using a 102ss whip with 2 radials at 45º angle set 13 feet up in a tree (un grounded) in my back yard. I want to put it up at the back peak of my roof which will get it to about 20 feet.

My first question is, how do I ground this type of antenna?

I've read many things about it but I'm still unclear about how you can attach ground wire to the antenna without changing its resonant characteristics, and also how can an antenna be grounded if the wire is only attached to the radial side of it and not the center pole part?

My second is will there be any significant improvement by getting the antenna up from 13 to 20 feet. (Yes, I do understand that I'll still not be over 1 wavelength in hight, but I need to be as stealthy as I can. Also thought about A99 but the whip is almost invisible...HOA, Wife, Etc...)

 

[R.P. Coletrain]

I guess what my question really is, does the ground wire need to be a non-resonant length, and where do I attach it to the antenna?

 

[W5LZ]

You don't have to ground your antenna for RF purposes. For a safety ground maybe, but not for RF. Those radials are the 'ground'.
- 'Doc

 

[R.P. Coletrain]

Safety purposes. I don't understand why people call them "ground" planes since it isn't grounding but resonance. But the grounding I'm talking about is the Earth type.

There is a huge difference between electrical currents and waves. Currents go with earth grounding, as Waves are to resonance, which is why I wonder if the added ground wires need to be non-resonant so they do not interfere with the antenna. and what those particular lengths may be.

I'm also confused as to how the grounding is attached to the antenna itself.

 

[R.P. Coletrain]

My suspicions are founded as to why the answer to this relatively simple question cannot be answered on any forum, the fact is an FCC license to "operate" a radio and reading the ARRL handbook do not in any way even remotely qualify someone as an engineer in the electrical physical sciences, as also reading a spec sheet doesn't mean you know why the design is the way it is.

I've read probably a hundred things on the web and got a hundred different answers. Hey DOC do you deduce much? You didn't even give me an answer to a question that I asked. Whatever it is that your a doc in obviously isn't Reading.

I'm sure this will be my last post on any web forum so fair well with the sudo-science. (anybody can throw money at a problem in hopes that it will be solved ie. the government.) Good luck with all your endeavors.

Don't worry I won't let the door hit me on the way out.

 

[Atlasta]

RP I didn't quite understand your question. Are you looking for a ground plane or a or an earth ground? Opinions on whether earth grounding is necessary vary widely from person to person. I've never grounded an antenna and have never had any problems, however I do make a habit of disconnecting the coax during electrical storms. Understand that nothing is going to save the antenna from a direct hit so if you are thinking along those lines then you may wish to reconsider.

Back when I was antenna-restricted and even more financially challenged than now I rigged up a 102" steel mast on a modified mirror-mount bracket and three 9-ft aluminum 'radials'. It was cheap to make and worked reasonably well.

Any additional antenna height will help but don't expect to see a great improvement going from 13 to 20 feet.

Since you already have the antenna in a tree, here is a great article on painting a fiberglass antenna so that it blends in to the surrounding area: Painting a Fiberglass CB or Ham Radio Antenna

No need to run off RP. There is a wealth of information here and it is well worth your time to sift through it to find the answers you need.

 

[cbradiomagazine.com]

If your antenna is operating well with a low SWR with the current radial system then you shouldn't have to do much to the antenna if you want to mount it on the roof. Be aware your SWR may change just because of the change in the mounting location.

To ground your antenna for safety there is tons of info on the internet.

You may also want to look at some of the ICE products.

 

[W5LZ]

R.P. Coletrain,
You've lost me. What question didn't I answer?
- 'Doc

 

[HomerBB]

Doc, don't worry about it.
You did answer his question as you should, however, I think he may have been referring to whether or not raising the antenna from 13 to 20 feet would result in improved performance.

In my experience, yes. Is that a scientifically provable answer? No.
Like Alka-Seltzer, "Try it, you'll like it" - maybe.

Why are they called "Ground Planes" ?

In simplest of terms:

because they act as if they are the ground (earth) for an elevated antenna as opposed to being a ground-mounted antenna,


definition of ground (among others):

the surface of the earth
soil, earth

a : an object that makes an electrical connection with the earth (as in safety ground)

b : a large conducting body (as the earth) used as a common return for an electric circuit and as an arbitrary zero of potential (as in ground plane)

The yin needs a yang.

 

[mackmobile43]

Safety purposes. I don't understand why people call them "ground" planes since it isn't grounding but resonance. But the grounding I'm talking about is the Earth type.

There is a huge difference between electrical currents and waves. Currents go with earth grounding, as Waves are to resonance, which is why I wonder if the added ground wires need to be non-resonant so they do not interfere with the antenna. and what those particular lengths may be.

I'm also confused as to how the grounding is attached to the antenna itself.

You are such a fucking troll, you know more than 99% of the people here and you ask stupid noobie questions.

The radials are counterpoise and not ground in any god damned sense of the word and resonance only changes for good or bad depending on the length adjacent to the vertical for absence of an earth counterpoise.

Unless common mode currents become an issue due to the lack of counterpoise is most likely the only way you'll ever see an issue with a solid wire making a ground connection to earth.

 

[gamegetter]

:thumbdown:

My suspicions are founded as to why the answer to this relatively simple question cannot be answered on any forum, the fact is an FCC license to "operate" a radio and reading the ARRL handbook do not in any way even remotely qualify someone as an engineer in the electrical physical sciences, as also reading a spec sheet doesn't mean you know why the design is the way it is.

I've read probably a hundred things on the web and got a hundred different answers. Hey DOC do you deduce much? You didn't even give me an answer to a question that I asked. Whatever it is that your a doc in obviously isn't Reading.

I'm sure this will be my last post on any web forum so fair well with the sudo-science. (anybody can throw money at a problem in hopes that it will be solved ie. the government.) Good luck with all your endeavors.

Don't worry I won't let the door hit me on the way out.

:thumbdown:
Well, Good Bye Then!

 

[BOOTY MONSTER]

You are such a fucking troll, you know more than 99% of the people here and you ask stupid noobie questions.

The radials are counterpoise and not ground in any god damned sense of the word and resonance only changes for good or bad depending on the length adjacent to the vertical for absence of an earth counterpoise.

Unless common mode currents become an issue due to the lack of counterpoise is most likely the only way you'll ever see an issue with a solid wire making a ground connection to earth.

you seem to think this someone that has been here before but using a different name ? will you share who it is ?