3-4 element yagi help!

[ghutch]

I have limited space to put up much metal so I have looked at several antennas from long wires to skyppers to yagi beams to bobtail curtains :redface: Want to max the gain with as little metal as possible so the folks that live around me don't burn me out?!! I have room for a vertical but want to put up some type of beam if it is worth the effort.

I have room to place a small beam such as a 3-4 element yagi short boom with out too much issue but the height would only be at 18-20 feet to the boom. At 20 feet the antenna is only 4-5 ft above the roof and also in line with some electric/phone cables appro. 50 feet away.....not a shock hazard but may cause interferance or pattern issues. Large trees will be 15 feet from the beam corners as it is rotated. The yagi will be nested in the yard?? and neighborhood with trees all around:sad: 20 feet is all I can do on height?!!!! has anyone had to deal with much the same? any ideas
The open bay/gulf of mexico is 200 yards east so a ground plane is not an issue but my trees and the surrounding trees and homes may kill any gain the beam gives? really need ideas?? ...please add your ideas this forum has thousands of years of antenna experience and I would love to have a forum designed antenna if possible!!!!.
I have the most of the parts for a skypper but it has more Wife issues due to the wires and fishing poles etc.. The Boss thinks a yagi looks cleaner and I have to agree?.

Also does anyone have experience with Siro 4 element vs a Maco 4? only 75.00 more, is the Maco worth the extra bucks? as far as quailty?

 

[n0zna]

go with the

v quad.The 3 or 4 element is fine,but v quad is a good antenna.I have frends that have both the siro and maco.and from what i seen.Much rather have the siro,more broad banded.73 de JW

 

[RatsoW8]

What you are planning will work well. I used a similar set up with a 4 element yagi for a few years on 10 meters. A couple things you are a little off on.

- The trees will have close to zero effect on the antenna at HF frequencies and will not kill the gain.

- The Gulf will not be your "ground plane" unless you plan to mount the antenna in the Gulf itself. Check the Govt ground conductivity charts for your location. You might be surprised.

Bottom line: Get the antenna up in the air as high as possible and start making contacts. People sweat the details way too much.

 

[HomerBB]

Bottom line: Get the antenna up in the air as high as possible and start making contacts. People sweat the details way too much.

Dittos.

I build mine from junk, make contacts, and let the operator on the other end do the sweating.

 

[ghutch]

v quad.The 3 or 4 element is fine,but v quad is a good antenna.I have frends that have both the siro and maco.and from what i seen.Much rather have the siro,more broad banded.73 de JW

I looked at a V Quad....the elements in the vertical position will create an issue....the yagis on flat side have less negitive eye appeal! ?? The HOA is not looking for issues but I dont want to give anyone a starting place and create a problem for myself.

I have thought about a bobtail curtain in the backyard have room for one at about 60-70 feet but don't know of anyone running one? It has the best of both worlds....no impact for the neighobors and is a fair amount of gain. Problem with the curtain is its limited to two directions. My QTH the beam would transmit a few degrees (25-30)off north and south. curtain would run east to west. If my caluculations are correct I could get a 5 element curtain inside the 70 feet or so of yard? this might be the way to go

 

[BJ radionut]

CUBEX 11m CB MODELS

The link is for the 2 element Qaud...Get the bottom of the elements above the peak of the roof and it will work well...
You can paint the shinny parts a dark green or brown and they can be hard to see from the sides...
This will have about the same gain as a 3 element Yagi...but will be lighter and only takes a small TV rotor to turn it...only 8lbs...
You can build one pretty easy but, hard to beat this brand. They have been making Quads a long time...
Then put up a Vertical Dipole or sloper and hide that in the tall trees... feed with rg8x or even rg58 (if not to long) and your done...
All the Best
BJ

 

[ghutch]

CUBEX 11m CB MODELS

The link is for the 2 element Qaud...Get the bottom of the elements above the peak of the roof and it will work well...
You can paint the shinny parts a dark green or brown and they can be hard to see from the sides...
This will have about the same gain as a 3 element Yagi...but will be lighter and only takes a small TV rotor to turn it...only 8lbs...
You can build one pretty easy but, hard to beat this brand. They have been making Quads a long time...
Then put up a Vertical Dipole or sloper and hide that in the tall trees... feed with rg8x or even rg58 (if not to long) and your done...
All the Best
BJ

Really looked at these antennas....issues are the added metal and fiberglas poles to paint and camo....I thought if i can get a yagi on the flat side it would not have as much visual impact as most antennas....not much more than a vertical. the antenna will show to the front yard but only about half the boom and front facing elements.
Saw a post yesterday about making a folded element yagia from a maco that adds a little gain and FB ratio is another reason i lean to the Yagi. I had hoped to be able to use a short boom...10 ft or so and max the gain and fb ratio ....getting the best gain with the smallest impact for the neighbors.
One forum memeber makes beams with the folded array but he's in europe!! shipping would kill me.....he needs a US distributuion point and would most likely sell a ton of them.
surely someone on this forum has similar issues and has worked thru the BS with a HOA?? I'm open to all ideas....in fact welcome all ideas or ? or something you have wanted to try out ? they just need to be able to get past the limits i have!! thanks to all thus far KEEP THE IDEAS COMING!!! PLS

 

[gamegetter]

I have limited space to put up much metal so I have looked at several antennas from long wires to skyppers to yagi beams to bobtail curtains :redface: Want to max the gain with as little metal as possible so the folks that live around me don't burn me out?!! I have room for a vertical but want to put up some type of beam if it is worth the effort.

I have room to place a small beam such as a 3-4 element yagi short boom with out too much issue but the height would only be at 18-20 feet to the boom. At 20 feet the antenna is only 4-5 ft above the roof and also in line with some electric/phone cables appro. 50 feet away.....not a shock hazard but may cause interferance or pattern issues. Large trees will be 15 feet from the beam corners as it is rotated. The yagi will be nested in the yard?? and neighborhood with trees all around:sad: 20 feet is all I can do on height?!!!! has anyone had to deal with much the same? any ideas
The open bay/gulf of mexico is 200 yards east so a ground plane is not an issue but my trees and the surrounding trees and homes may kill any gain the beam gives? really need ideas?? ...please add your ideas this forum has thousands of years of antenna experience and I would love to have a forum designed antenna if possible!!!!.
I have the most of the parts for a skypper but it has more Wife issues due to the wires and fishing poles etc.. The Boss thinks a yagi looks cleaner and I have to agree?.

Also does anyone have experience with Siro 4 element vs a Maco 4? only 75.00 more, is the Maco worth the extra bucks? as far as quailty?

Greetings and welcome to the forum:

What is your height restriction?

 

[ghutch]

max is 20 feet....might get 22 feet if all goes well....just can't get any higher due to restrictions.
Boom size to an issue as well....12 or so feet max is about the limit
read an article about a four element maxed gain with increased FB ratio....uses a maco 4 as a base and spacing is changed somewhat to get a little more out of the beam.....looked also at the folded dipole beams..hspd stytle they seem to have the better gains and some noise reduction.....also are 50 ohms at the feed line....osme many choices and with my restriction I may be fighting a lost cause? :thumbdown:
I'll get something up just have not settled on the best design for my qth ....and pocket book? yet
surely someone has similar issues and has found the right antenna?

 

[Robb]

max is 20 feet....might get 22 feet if all goes well....just can't get any higher due to restrictions.
Boom size to an issue as well....12 or so feet max is about the limit
read an article about a four element maxed gain with increased FB ratio....uses a maco 4 as a base and spacing is changed somewhat to get a little more out of the beam.....looked also at the folded dipole beams..hspd stytle they seem to have the better gains and some noise reduction.....also are 50 ohms at the feed line....osme many choices and with my restriction I may be fighting a lost cause? :thumbdown:
I'll get something up just have not settled on the best design for my qth ....and pocket book? yet
surely someone has similar issues and has found the right antenna?

Put it up 30 feet and see if they try to shinny up the mast to measure it.
Try to get it up that far.

What is the difference between 12 or 13 ft boom lenth to the HOA?
Doubtful it will matter at all. But 13 ft is the same length as the Sirio 4 element - BTW.

Doesn't matter too much about the F/B or gain if you are going to compromise the height anyway. At least at 30 ft up it will be 3/4 of a wavelength above ground; and that is worthwhile to attempt.

 

[HomerBB]

An alternative to the 3 element Yagi not yet mentioned may be the Moxon. It has only two bent radials making its footprint far less. It has adequate gain, and reportedly great F/B rejection. It is lighter than a larger beam making it easier to raise to heights a larger mast would be needed for bigger beams to be raised. It can be operated with a TV rotator.

The advantages of the Moxon over a 3 - 4 element Yagi are:

1. smaller making it less visibly offensive,
2. lighter, making it easier to raise and rotate,
3. reported better front to back rejection, and
4. cheaper than most to build.

Its disadvantages are:

1. a little less forward gain,
2. may have to build it instead of buy it, and
3. may not be as pretty as a traditional Yagi to some.

As Doc can attest, painting it pink may solve the pretty part.

 

[ghutch]

Thanks Homer and all for the input.....they look to be a easy build and now this adds another antenna to study. I have seen these antennas in the web pages but not really taken a close look see.
please keep info coming as I have not pulled the trigger yet on a purchase or design. i HAVE ONE SHOT and want to get the most bang for the buck. I have some rattle can pink paint ready to make the beast pretty?? :laugh: If the neighbors say anything I'll leave the Xmas lights on all year long and might add a few to the mast
I did measure the height and can get a max of 22 feet.....does anyone know the impact this would have on a beam patterns or gains? this will give antenna height of 30-32 feet off sea level. I just cannot go any higher. 22 feet get the bottom of the antenna is at 8 feet above the roof ridge. My roof was installed last year with the radiant barrier on the back of the decking....this is a mylar or metalized coating that looks like foil, it is a conservation measure for HVAC? not sure what this is going to go to me? or what impact on the antenna pattern or if it will produce a ground plane issue? I guess I'll find that out after the thing is up.
I lean to the sirio 4 element due to the short boom and price....at 200.00 it seems to cover most issues and give a good amount of gain and fb ratio. what size rotor will be needed....a gain master wont handle this antenna? i dont think?