Antenna stinger experiment.

[Logan]

I have a Predator double coil with a 17" shaft . I also have a wilson 5000 mag-mount. I use the predator to shoot skip 40% of the time only because it's a hassle removing the antenna and the 3- pad mag-mount every night, to keep it from being ripped off :x . I use the user friendly wilson 5000 mag mount 60% of the time. The problem is that I pick up a lot of atmospheric noise with the wilson 5000, and although the TX is excellent, the RX leaves a lot to be desired, and my friends are saying "Someone is calling you from DX, why don't you answer him?. It's because I can't hear as good, as I do when I use the Predator ant. + the wilson stinger is so skinny. Question: Using my wilson 5000 mag-mount, if I were to replace the skinny stinger, with the thicker predator stinger with more surface area, would that make the wilson 5000 receive better, and eliminate some of the white noise??. Have any of you ever tried this, and did it work?, or was it a waste of time? . Sorry for being so long winded.

 

[Logan]

BTW, the Predator stinger will be the exact same length, as the wilson 5000 mag mount, only thicker :idea: .

 

[Switch Kit]

Hey Logan ,LONG WINDED !!! ? ......I truly doubt it there dude .....now IM a different story (-: ....I personally don't think it's going to make much differance in changing the stinger to a fatter one in your Wilson's case )-: but hey ! it's always fun to play around as long as it doesn't get to costly. White noise huh ? .....interesting, that's a new one on me ? But I do understand that one antenna can be more quiter then the other ....White noise huh ? ...I run a W-5000 drill through on my car , I suppose I get the normal noises that are generated by my cars engine I suppose and or atmospheric conditions but never enough to make be change my antenna up to this point. sounds like it might be a grounding thing in your case ? Your one antenna has 3 magnets to ground where your Wilson only has 1 ...just a guess on my part ? IM sure some of the more scientific dudes will post up here and give you a better explanation then I could. Good Luck to you there Logan .....Switch Kit

 

[Logan]

Switchkit, I tried the experiment today, and replaced the wilson stinger with the predator stinger, and believe it or not, it actually made a difference. I could hear a little better, not much, but there was a slight improvement. Electrical noise from the alternator, fuel pump etc., was also reduced. The only problem ( which really isn't a problem) is that the bigger static ball on top of the predator stinger makes the stinger whip around a little bit more .

 

[bob85]

if its the bending in the wind you are trying to stop then a fatter stinger with a fast taper is the way to go, parallel stingers like the 10k still bend in the wind a fair amount, the best stingers i have found so far are the avanti 6foot moonraker stingers, for shorter stingers the original valor 520 halfbreed are a good stiff in the wind stinger, the problem with the wilson is theres not much meat in the top of the coil to drill it and fit anything much thicker

 

[Switch Kit]

back in the old days they used to add aluminum foil to the end of rabbit ears on T.V. sets for better reception ......Hmmm .....glad to hear it worked out for you a little bit there Logan (-:

 

[W5LZ]

The 'thickness' of a stinger doesn't affect what you hear at all. It's length does, because that affects the resonance point of the antenna, still not a 'huge' difference in what you hear. If changing the stinger made any preceptible difference at all, then I'd take a close look at the 'mechanics' of the thing, maybe a better connection? Think it's more a 'subjective' difference than an 'objective' difference... (Unless there's one @#$$ of a differnec in 'thickness').
- 'Doc

 

[Logan]

I was thinking that maybe the reception is better, and that the noise floor was lowered, because of the thicker stinger's surface area. My friends use another term called "Capture area" :?: . I figured capture area refered to only base station antennas, and mobile big coil antennas. I guess maybe this term called capture area, can be applied to stingers. And no, when I made this test, I wasn't high on weed or anything, and it's not a subjective opinion :evil: that I can actually hear better, because I do . But the static ball on the predator stinger is huge. I won't cut it, or take it off, because I'm going to put it back into the predator coil, and maybe find a permanent suitable stinger on par with the predator stinger, to put back into the wilson coil. Like I said, it was just an experiment, for my personal edification .

 

[W5LZ]

Hey! 'Playing' with antennas is what makes them so much fun. So, 'play' away!
'Capture' area is more of a way of thinking about it than anything. It gives you a kind of 'new' perspective, or a different way of looking at it. Not a thing wrong with that kind of thinking but don't get too carried away with it. It can lead to some 'odd' conclusions that just aren't that 'true', or practical for HF stuff.
Anything that applys to base antennas also applys to mobile antennas. Well, mostly. Height above ground, mast size, guying, rotors and so on wouldn't but then who'd expect it to, right?
The diameter of an antenna/stinger can make a difference, sure. But the difference in diameters has to be very large (depending on the frequency of use). At HF, that difference in diameter amounts to feet, not fractions of an inch. So I seriously doubt if the difference in the stingers diameter makes any difference at all. The static ball at the top of the thing would make a much bigger difference than how thick the stinger is! Reduces static noise to an appreciable level if it's larger enough. (Don't start looking for copper plated basketballs! lol) ...
- 'Doc

 

[Switch Kit]

weather high on weed or not !!! if it sounds better in your ear hole ? ....that's all that really matters dude !!! ....remember a time about 10 years or so ago .....either my Wilsons stinger flew off or somebody stoled it ? ......IM guessing more like I didn't tighten the set screws down tight enough ? ....I would think if somebody stoled it ? they would have taken the whole damned load ......anyway ......I didn't have time to make treads on down to the local shop to get another one ...I did have a bunch of extra stingers from over the years in the corner of my garage .......I think I had a old Rat Shack Deluxe Magmount stinger that fit right on down the Wilson's shaft ......man was this thing beat up !!! was even missing it's little static goodie on the end and was bent to all hell at the top !! .....it matched out great !! (even a notch or two better SWR then my Wilson's stinger !!) We are talking flat here guys !!!! ....low and behold I swear that sucker was receiving better then the original !! ....Well ........at least it seemed that way (-: looked like $hit but it worked great !! .....one of these days and IM going to find some copper wire thick enough to make a stinger out of it and see how that will work for grinnies, (-:

 

[Moleculo]

If it was different days and times that you tried the experiment, then I think too many variables have been introduced into the experiment. It is possible that the arc of the whip due to thickness and travelling speed could affect things. Anyone play with NVIS? A lot of the guys into NVIS purposely run horizontal whips to shorten the "skip" range.

 

[freecell]

"A lot of the guys into NVIS purposely run horizontal whips to shorten the "skip" range."

no, no, no. the purpose of NVIS is to "eliminate the skip zone," the "dead spot" between the outer limits of surface and ground wave range and the area where useful skywave propagation coverage begins. this dead spot IS the skip zone. we created it through the proliferation of low angle antenna designs and only the individual operator can get rid of it. that's why it's called Near Vertical Incidence Skywave propagation. it's simply the advantageous use of high-angle radiation at frequencies between the Lowest Usable Frequency and the Maximum Usable Frequency at any given time during the day or night (24 hours) for continuous coverage out to several hundreds of miles, thus extending local coverage into the skip zone and beyond, leaving no gaps. because of the low antenna heights above ground required, (between .1 - .25 wl typically) noise levels are virtually non-existent as are gound and surface path losses. lower power levels are the order of the day as a result and usually between two frequencies in the lower end of the hf band (2 - 10 mhz) communications can be maintained around the clock when the proper protocols are observed.

more here:
the first one is 5 MB.+

http://www.firecommunications.com/dfskip.pdf
http://www.qsl.net/wb5ude/nvis/