ARRL VE Testing

[Happy_Hamer]

OK so I was in Downers Grove IL on Friday during a VE testing session.

Please, someone tell me where the rules state that the VEs are NOT allowed to tell a person how many they missed on an exam?

I mean really? Is it that TOP SECRET?

Stupid if you ask me

 

[W5LZ]

A 'VE' is not allowed to tell you which questions you missed. They are not prohibited from telling you how many you missed. If you didn't pass, it's fairly easy to figure out that you missed more than 'X' amount of questions.
Those are the 'rules'. Can't say I agree with them completely, but that's the way it is.
- 'Doc

 

[Happy_Hamer]

A 'VE' is not allowed to tell you which questions you missed. They are not prohibited from telling you how many you missed. If you didn't pass, it's fairly easy to figure out that you missed more than 'X' amount of questions.
Those are the 'rules'. Can't say I agree with them completely, but that's the way it is.
- 'Doc

I can understand not telling you what questions you missed, it will lead to a debate about the answer and that is NOT up to the VE to agree or disagree with the answer, those answers are set, even if you disagree.

Like you said though, telling them the number missed should be allowed.

 

[hookedon6]

gee, i dunno. unless the VE's had other reasons, like having to clear the testing area by a certain time ect.

if you want to get "technical", it is not only "allowed', it is "required"..."grade all exams and advise applicants ... " i can understand as a general time saving concept to not (automatically) give everyone the results. but if it it is asked for the info must be provided to the applicant.

W5YI-VEC : VE Manual

straight from the W5YI VEC site, i won't speak for the arrl VEC manual:

VE Manual : 7.1 Written Examination Grading
As each person finishes an exam, collect all their papers, including any scratch paper. Immediately grade all exams and advise applicants only of the percentage of questions answered correctly and not the specific questions incorrectly answered.

 

[WX2MIG]

OK so I was in Downers Grove IL on Friday during a VE testing session.

Please, someone tell me where the rules state that the VEs are NOT allowed to tell a person how many they missed on an exam?

I mean really? Is it that TOP SECRET?

Stupid if you ask me

Don't know everything there is to know about this subject Hamer, but it's my understanding that the VE's are only required to tell a test candidate that they either "passed" or "failed" the test.
It would be in the best interest of the test candidate and the amateur radio hobby if they helped said candidate with knowing in what area they needed to study more, but as you probably already know, a lot of older HAM's are arrogant assholes that resent all new entry level HAM's because they don't have to know code, and would most likely be the motivation behind not telling a test candidate where they need more study time applied.....

 

[W5LZ]

I don't know about anybody else, but telling me which test question number I missed would be telling me almost absolutely nothing. I very seldom ever remember which question went with which number. When grading a test, the answer sheet is about the only thing the VE's ever see. They very, very seldom ever see the actual test questions, and unless there is some valid reason for doing so, no one sees a test during a testing session unless they are taking that particular test. There are several test question sheets for each element, they are numbered. If you retake a test, you won't get the same one twice in a row (if the VEC is doing their job right). That's what determines how many times you can take an element's test at our test sessions, the number of different tests for that particular element. If you take all that series and don't pass, that's it for that test session, sorry 'bout that, see you next time. Of course there are other considerations, like how many are taking tests, how crowded/busy things are etc. And that's only for the VEC group I'm a part of, may or may not be 'standard' practice for all of them. And while 'we' try to be as 'laid back' or as accommodating as possible, that only goes so far, you can't stretch/push that without consequences. Unfortunately, there's only so much 'skootch' room in the basic testing procedure. Telling specifically which question was missed just isn't part of that.
And like any 'group' of people doing almost anything, we make jokes about what we are doing. We also make it very plain that those jokes are just exactly that, jokes, not to be taken seriously.
It really isn't much fun telling someone that they didn't pass, but, you can bet that we don't 'give'/sell anything. If you pass a test at our test sessions, you really did it on your own. Which is how it should be.
A lot of this pertains only to how 'we' do things, and isn't really "on topic" sort of. Sorry 'bout that.
- 'Doc

 

[AB9RF]

Odds are that you were at my session (my club tests in Downers Grove on the first Friday of each month); I'm guessing you messaged me about this thread because I was probably one of the VEs who signed your CSCE. (I don't keep track of whose CSCEs I sign so I can't state this for a certainty.) We're an ARRL/VEC group and ARRL/VEC rules state that we must tell the candidate whether they passed or not, and their score, but not what questions they missed. If I or one of my colleagues misspoke and you got the impression that we can't tell you how many you missed, I apologize.

Also, it's technically up to the VEs to determine if the answer is correct. We can, if we are so inclined, decide that the key is wrong and use our own judgment to accept an different answer as correct. There are occasionally defective questions in the pools; in the old Extra pool there was one question that had the same answer for both A and C and for B and D, with A being the formally "correct" answer, and (before that question was eliminated from the pool) if a candidate complained about that question I would have been inclined to count C as a "correct" answer despite the key. However, the NCVEC and the VECs quickly withdraw defective questions once they're discovered and reported, so in practice this is really quite rare.

As an aside, congratulations on passing whichever test(s) you passed that night. Everyone who tested that night passed at least one element, so I can at least say with a certainty that you did that.