• You can now help support WorldwideDX when you shop on Amazon at no additional cost to you! Simply follow this Shop on Amazon link first and a portion of any purchase is sent to WorldwideDX to help with site costs.
  • Click here to find out how to win free radios from Retevis!

base antenna ground element questions .

B

BOOTY MONSTER

Guest
im finding that im getting more and more interested in base antennas and less interested in amps and radios . seems most threads on antennas are mostly focused on the main vertical radiator , its (wave) length and if its all metal or a wire inside fiberglass . there is sometimes some talk about how it tunes with a coil or a ring or a trombone slide system .

im interested in finding easily understood (or as newbie friendly as possible) info about how ground radials work , if theres a formula for calculating their length , how their angle affects performance/impedance/swr and if more of them (4 vs. 3) is better .

im also interested in info on how some antennas appear to short the coax (like the wolf omni's) but don't . and how others keep them seperate . is one way better than the other or just different ?

links to info or your thoughts are appreciated . thanks .
 

The easy one first!
Some antennas appear to be shorted because of how the impedance matching circuit is made/works. A DC short isn't necessarily a short for AC at a particular frequency. What it amounts to is that there's a coil in there which is a short at DC, but can appear to be an 'open circuit' to AC at a particular frequency, it's frequency related. A typical ohm meter uses DC to measure resistance or open/short circuits. So, seeing a 'short' isn't all that uncommon.
Radials.
There are two kinds, above ground (dirt) and below ground (buried in dirt). Both do the same thing, act as the 'other half' of the antenna. Gives the typical vertical element something to 'work against'.
While they both do the same thing, they do that 'thing' a bit differently depending on where they are. The buried radials are sort of less efficient because they are covered in dirt (dirt sort of absorbs RF) and so more of them are needed to produce the desired results/characteristics.
Above ground radials are not affected as much by what's around them cuz what's around them doesn't 'absorb' RF as much as dirt does. Position and shape also have an effect on above ground radials. They also act as the 'other half' of the antenna that the vertical element 'works against'. So, to get the desired characteristics, there are a number of different numbers, lengths, shapes, etc, that can work. One is all that's really required. That can make the antenna into a vertical dipole, for instance. Or is sort of slanted to one side, an 'L'. Add a few more evenly spaced around that vertical element and the thing becomes omnidirectional. If they are all 'skootched' over to one side, then things sort of get directional in that direction (emphasis on 'sort of'). Split them to either side and it's then sort of bi-directional (same emphasis on sort of).
Another aspect of radials is that they can do impedance matching, something that has to be done for ALL antennas. For a typical above ground 'groundplane' type antenna, the 'angle of the dangle' of the radials can change the impedance seen by the transmitter. Flat radials typically produce an input impedance for a resonant 1/4 wave antenna close to something like 25-35 ohms of impedance. As those flat radials start to droop a little, that input impedance starts going up. A typical, average sort of droop around 45 degrees, give or take some, yields an input impedance closer to 50 ohms, kind of. If that sounds a bit indefinite, it's because it is. Lots of things can change the exact input impedance seen in a particular mounting environment. That's why all antennas usually require some 'tuning', right? And there you got radials.
There's so much paraphrasing in the above that I wish it could be sold by the pound! It isn't exact, or a very scientific explanation at all. But, it gets the idea across. Nothing is very simple without the required background information. After you consume that information, digest it for a while, beat it with hammers to make it fit somewhere, eat enough electrical 'Rolaids', it all starts to make some kind of sense. May not be 'good sense', but if it fits, and if you can make it work for you, who cares! And if you really want to know what/how this stuff works I'd suggest hit the books. Nasty thought, huh?
- 'Doc
 
That was actually pretty good Doc, I learned some too. The part about the inner coil to ground in an AC circuit came around when I needed to realize that fact - too. Thanks!

Yes, there are simple formulas that can be found on many HAM sites and even good CB sites, like Bells CB for one. The HAM sites have the formulas to calculate radial ground plane dimensions, as well as the vertical radiator. You don't have to be Einstein to understand the formulas, and they are mostly multiplication and division that can be done on you computers calculator. If you look around on some of those sites, they will have the calculator there, so all that you need to do is put in the variables. Including 'Velocity Factor'.
http://www.bellscb.com/cb_radio_hobby/velfact.html

Here is a curve ball to antenna building or understanding them. There is a factor to the metals used and the coax used, it is called 'velocity factor'. In a free space - let's say 'outer space' light and radio waves travel at the speed of light - about 187,000 miles per second - or 300,000,000 meters a second. But in different metals such as copper, aluminum, and steel - they don't move as fast as they would in a free space. They slow down a bit. The kind of materials used will also determine the length of a piece of coax and the height of an antenna based on this velocity factor to calculate the proper length needed. Look up some specs on the different kinds of coax and you will see what I mean. the cheaper coax will have a velocity factor of 65% and the good kind will have a factor of 85%. When you get an aluminum antenna, the length AND velocity factor is already figured into its designed length - so that it can be tuned to its resonant length. If on builds a J-pole for a 2m radio; then one would need to include the velocity factor of copper. If a stainless steel whip is used; then its length is also determined by the velocity factor of stainless.
 
Last edited:

dxChat
Help Users
  • No one is chatting at the moment.
  • @ kopcicle:
    If you know you know. Anyone have Sam's current #? He hasn't been on since Oct 1st. Someone let him know I'm looking.
  • dxBot:
    535A has left the room.
  • @ AmericanEagle575:
    Just wanted to say Good Morning to all my Fellow WDX members out there!!!!!