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base antenna trouble
- Thread starter joker63
- Start date
joker63 said:
if its a cheepo phone and tv. that says part 15 on it probly no amount of filtering will help you. there tv and phone must accept the interference or they need to filter there phone and tv. easy to do on the phone, little harder to do on the tv speaker.
Master Chief said:
It cost less... Better not even close :!:
[/quote]JustinDePolis
And last, not knowing about the antenna you're using, and weather Mr. Coily is a machinest, or antenna engineer, it could be part of your problem as well. A lot of antennas will match, and have a great SWR, BUT their matching network on the antenna is flawed, and creates "common mode currents" that are present on the coax. In this case, no amount of changing things will help, ALTHOUGH you CAN put a few snap-on ferrite chokes around the coax right at the bottom on the antenna where the coax connects, and this can help, in a way. It creates a "ghetto" type balun. [/quote]
You guys wish they were flawed there flawless!!
Customer comment about tvi reduction and peformance!
www.angelfire.com/psy/mrcoily/id21.htm
Hello joker,,i would add grounding if you have not already,most of the time <splatter is due to overmodulation>Try dropping your mod back and also try turning your drive up a bit to give you a cleaner signal this helps....I am sure you hate to get into it with your neighbors,but see if there on a grounded system alot of the older homes do not have grounding(2 prong 110 lines) also the phone company will come out and add filters on request it is the there job to do this...Here is another link to give your neighbors...tvi hand book.tvi handbook..I also bleed on a neighbor <rabbit ears on his tv> still stuck in the 70s i guess...Anyway try that and also adding chokes on there equipment may help,,There are a few things also make sure all your coax ends are in good shape with no loose connections...73sss thanks...www.mrcoily.com
I can vouch for the Coily Enforce Antenna. I have used the older generation enforcer and now the New Enforcer with larger coil and double tubed mast and Bird QC connector for quick swap to any other connector I want to put on the antenna.
I have run A99, Imax 2000/GPK, Maco V58/V5000, Signal Engineering Thunder 8XB, Shakepere Super Big Stick and Army Stick... and just recently....the Jay in the Mohave I-10K.
The Jay in the Mohave and the Coily Enforcer antennas (with Maco V58/V5000 following a little behind) did the best job to eliminate any types of TVI and RFI.
However, the I-10K and the Maco V5000 were close in performance, whereas the .64 Enforcer gave me better performance out in the distance and on DX. I have done some back and forth comparisons.
I tried a friends I-10K here. It was very close to the Maco V5000 that I had previously. It did do better for eliminating TVI. The Maco and I-10K were better than a Imax 2000 w/GPK. I have had two Coilys. One was the first generation Enforcer (got it last summer) and sold it to my good friend and got the newer Enforcer (built better and tuned in a little better says Mr. Coily). I had the I-10K on one side of the house at 35ft base, and the Coily Enforcer was at the other end of the house at 35ft base. Both were used with 100' LMR 400 for testing (I usually use Heliax, but I wanted to make sure everything was fair) on 27.2050 and 1:1 match @ 50 ohms impednace. I used a Alpha Delta 3 position switch box. I used a Grant XL, Galaxy 66v, Cobra 200GTL, Kenwood TS-2000X, Icom 706 MKIIG for my test radios. The wattage was left at 4 watts dead key for the single final radios, used the Cobra 200GTL at 3 watts DK swing 100watts on Low power and 40 swing 160-ish on HIGH. the ham radios were done at around 20 watts dead-key and swing forward.
I saw about 1 S-Unit gain with the Coily Enforcer on receive and transmit to the I-10K. People said on SSB (with the Grant XL and Cobra 200GTL) that my signal went from 7 s-unit peaks on the I-10K to 8-8 1/2 peaks on the Coily. The biggest jump was the modulation.
I tested the switch box back and forth for about a week straight on signals close to the noise level and signals very close. The signals close to the noise level were the ones the showed the largest improvement. I had a guy about 35 miles out (its all flat terrrain here, no hills or mountains..) that was barely copyable with the I-10K. I flipped to the Coily and the signal was now understandable. It was not a huge difference "like using a beam" but I did see a difference.
I am not in any way, shape, or form in business with Mr. Coily or trying to promote his products. I am just stating hard core facts that I found and your results may differ based on many variables (elevation, power, atomospheric conditions, etc....). I will admit that last summer I was sorta skeptical about the claims and such that I read on the Coily website, but I can now vouch for almost 1 year of use that his claims are all true. My output now (in comparison to a A99 or Imax as these are a popular reference point since so many people have them) is that now the gain of the antenna makes my signal now appear that I am running a 1 or 2 pill linear all the time, and I am completely barefoot. Also, the same goes with the receive. The white noise and static from the A99 and Imax which was ever so bothersome, it completely removed, and I now can hear distant station out 30+ miles easy now.
I feel the money spent on the coily was completely necessary, it removed all my noise at the bottom of the s-unit scale, eliminated TVI and RFI that I previously had, receives and transmits better and farther than any other stand-by groundplane I have tried, and it actually has gain to it, I figure around 6-ish DBD gain, I have done many tests and with 100 watts into the Coily it appears the ERP output is around 400-ish (giving the antenna roughly a 4x multiplication factor, or around a 2 element beam).
I have tried 100 watts (dead key or CW) into the A99 and received 1/2 the perforance. I double my power into the Coily Enforcer, I gain 1 s-unit. I double my power into my Imax, I gain about 1/2 s-unit. Everytime I quadruple my power into the enforcer I get around 2 s-units. When I quadruple my power into the Imax I get 1 s-unit. Do some calculations with the antenna gain and multiplication theory and you'll find on paper that my real world results are about correct. The more power you put into the Coily, the best it gets!
Thanks and please I do not want any arguements or such coming from my personal experiences and test results.
(P.S. If anyone wants to know why I didnt go to the Jay In the Mohave I-10K, I had troubles getting email response and was told eventually that they were backlogged and I didnt want to wait. So I then kept looking around and found the coily antennas. I didnt know about them till last summer of 2005.
Thanks very much.
I have run A99, Imax 2000/GPK, Maco V58/V5000, Signal Engineering Thunder 8XB, Shakepere Super Big Stick and Army Stick... and just recently....the Jay in the Mohave I-10K.
The Jay in the Mohave and the Coily Enforcer antennas (with Maco V58/V5000 following a little behind) did the best job to eliminate any types of TVI and RFI.
However, the I-10K and the Maco V5000 were close in performance, whereas the .64 Enforcer gave me better performance out in the distance and on DX. I have done some back and forth comparisons.
I tried a friends I-10K here. It was very close to the Maco V5000 that I had previously. It did do better for eliminating TVI. The Maco and I-10K were better than a Imax 2000 w/GPK. I have had two Coilys. One was the first generation Enforcer (got it last summer) and sold it to my good friend and got the newer Enforcer (built better and tuned in a little better says Mr. Coily). I had the I-10K on one side of the house at 35ft base, and the Coily Enforcer was at the other end of the house at 35ft base. Both were used with 100' LMR 400 for testing (I usually use Heliax, but I wanted to make sure everything was fair) on 27.2050 and 1:1 match @ 50 ohms impednace. I used a Alpha Delta 3 position switch box. I used a Grant XL, Galaxy 66v, Cobra 200GTL, Kenwood TS-2000X, Icom 706 MKIIG for my test radios. The wattage was left at 4 watts dead key for the single final radios, used the Cobra 200GTL at 3 watts DK swing 100watts on Low power and 40 swing 160-ish on HIGH. the ham radios were done at around 20 watts dead-key and swing forward.
I saw about 1 S-Unit gain with the Coily Enforcer on receive and transmit to the I-10K. People said on SSB (with the Grant XL and Cobra 200GTL) that my signal went from 7 s-unit peaks on the I-10K to 8-8 1/2 peaks on the Coily. The biggest jump was the modulation.
I tested the switch box back and forth for about a week straight on signals close to the noise level and signals very close. The signals close to the noise level were the ones the showed the largest improvement. I had a guy about 35 miles out (its all flat terrrain here, no hills or mountains..) that was barely copyable with the I-10K. I flipped to the Coily and the signal was now understandable. It was not a huge difference "like using a beam" but I did see a difference.
I am not in any way, shape, or form in business with Mr. Coily or trying to promote his products. I am just stating hard core facts that I found and your results may differ based on many variables (elevation, power, atomospheric conditions, etc....). I will admit that last summer I was sorta skeptical about the claims and such that I read on the Coily website, but I can now vouch for almost 1 year of use that his claims are all true. My output now (in comparison to a A99 or Imax as these are a popular reference point since so many people have them) is that now the gain of the antenna makes my signal now appear that I am running a 1 or 2 pill linear all the time, and I am completely barefoot. Also, the same goes with the receive. The white noise and static from the A99 and Imax which was ever so bothersome, it completely removed, and I now can hear distant station out 30+ miles easy now.
I feel the money spent on the coily was completely necessary, it removed all my noise at the bottom of the s-unit scale, eliminated TVI and RFI that I previously had, receives and transmits better and farther than any other stand-by groundplane I have tried, and it actually has gain to it, I figure around 6-ish DBD gain, I have done many tests and with 100 watts into the Coily it appears the ERP output is around 400-ish (giving the antenna roughly a 4x multiplication factor, or around a 2 element beam).
I have tried 100 watts (dead key or CW) into the A99 and received 1/2 the perforance. I double my power into the Coily Enforcer, I gain 1 s-unit. I double my power into my Imax, I gain about 1/2 s-unit. Everytime I quadruple my power into the enforcer I get around 2 s-units. When I quadruple my power into the Imax I get 1 s-unit. Do some calculations with the antenna gain and multiplication theory and you'll find on paper that my real world results are about correct. The more power you put into the Coily, the best it gets!
Thanks and please I do not want any arguements or such coming from my personal experiences and test results.
(P.S. If anyone wants to know why I didnt go to the Jay In the Mohave I-10K, I had troubles getting email response and was told eventually that they were backlogged and I didnt want to wait. So I then kept looking around and found the coily antennas. I didnt know about them till last summer of 2005.
Thanks very much.
Nice write up 960 except for the part about estimated gain figures. It's a 5/8 like any other 5/8 and is no way near "6 dbd". My experience with the Maco V58/5000 vs the I-10K is much different than yours and I know the Maco antennas very well.
As soon as someone sends me a .64 or a local is willing to spend the BIG $$$ and let me borrow it, I'll do an unbiased test. As far as mechanical comparisons, I already see one flaw with the .64 and have issues with the matching network.
Until that time, I'll continue to sing the praises of the I-10K! I and hundreds of others around the world can't all be wrong!
As we are all PAINFULLY aware, it takes Jay FOREVER to get an antenna out of prototype. We are seeing that now with the Crusader beams. What we forget is that it took YEARS for Jay to get the I-10K out too! It has to be right before it goes out!
What you may not know is that Jay tested all kinds of matching networks, including coils and documented their performance. Want to know why he picked the open architecture of the trombone? It worked the best!
I do have a question though Dan; Why is your antenna so expensive?
As soon as someone sends me a .64 or a local is willing to spend the BIG $$$ and let me borrow it, I'll do an unbiased test. As far as mechanical comparisons, I already see one flaw with the .64 and have issues with the matching network.
Until that time, I'll continue to sing the praises of the I-10K! I and hundreds of others around the world can't all be wrong!
As we are all PAINFULLY aware, it takes Jay FOREVER to get an antenna out of prototype. We are seeing that now with the Crusader beams. What we forget is that it took YEARS for Jay to get the I-10K out too! It has to be right before it goes out!
What you may not know is that Jay tested all kinds of matching networks, including coils and documented their performance. Want to know why he picked the open architecture of the trombone? It worked the best!
I do have a question though Dan; Why is your antenna so expensive?
Hello chief... 
Well it cost 80.00 bucks to ship,that is included,,i put it together, pretuned 1.1.1 everytime,,the ground plane section is tig welded and the feed is also tig welded and that also all has to be machined,everything on it is machined from scratch. I really don't think it is that spendy ..i spent 100.00 bucks to fill my saburban "now that's exspensive....Basicly it comes down to my machine time on making the 2" solid delrin isolators and also the 1"x9 inch internal delrin that reaches up into the first tube to keep it from crushing when i hook the coil into the antenna,also the mast washers i have to end-mill to get a perfect fit around the mast,also the feed system off the coil to the connector,more stuff i have to machine,tap then fit,tig weld,all the small machined peices that go into every antenna take time,there are alot of factors...The biggest reason besides,all the machine work is the double wall mast,before i had them priced lower but after replacing a few mast,I had to double up the wall thickness to .098 spiked my tubing prices..each mast alone costs me 120.00 bucks...I Just finished pricing a large quantity of .065-.058 6061-t6 and t8 tubing to get rid of the need for double wall mast you would be amazed how hard it is to get tubing up here in oregon.I would love to sell these for less but i can't..But on the other hand there so damn nice :mrgreen: i have a 20 deep backlog there selling faster than i can get them built,and it because word of mouth and the high quality,and every time i sell one a bunch more people see them and my phone rings..2 more calls tonight,,I get just the most excited people either e-mailing me or calling me several times on how great these antennas perform,,. there really nice and if you ever get your hands on a enforcer.64 you will be impressed there damn nice...73sss
Tell me what you don't like about the matching system,I tried a boxes full of differant configurations,also what is flawed to you and i will check it out,,,,Always room for improvement...have a great weekend....Dan
Well it cost 80.00 bucks to ship,that is included,,i put it together, pretuned 1.1.1 everytime,,the ground plane section is tig welded and the feed is also tig welded and that also all has to be machined,everything on it is machined from scratch. I really don't think it is that spendy ..i spent 100.00 bucks to fill my saburban "now that's exspensive....Basicly it comes down to my machine time on making the 2" solid delrin isolators and also the 1"x9 inch internal delrin that reaches up into the first tube to keep it from crushing when i hook the coil into the antenna,also the mast washers i have to end-mill to get a perfect fit around the mast,also the feed system off the coil to the connector,more stuff i have to machine,tap then fit,tig weld,all the small machined peices that go into every antenna take time,there are alot of factors...The biggest reason besides,all the machine work is the double wall mast,before i had them priced lower but after replacing a few mast,I had to double up the wall thickness to .098 spiked my tubing prices..each mast alone costs me 120.00 bucks...I Just finished pricing a large quantity of .065-.058 6061-t6 and t8 tubing to get rid of the need for double wall mast you would be amazed how hard it is to get tubing up here in oregon.I would love to sell these for less but i can't..But on the other hand there so damn nice :mrgreen: i have a 20 deep backlog there selling faster than i can get them built,and it because word of mouth and the high quality,and every time i sell one a bunch more people see them and my phone rings..2 more calls tonight,,I get just the most excited people either e-mailing me or calling me several times on how great these antennas perform,,. there really nice and if you ever get your hands on a enforcer.64 you will be impressed there damn nice...73sssTell me what you don't like about the matching system,I tried a boxes full of differant configurations,also what is flawed to you and i will check it out,,,,Always room for improvement...have a great weekend....Dan
Fair enough. Machine work takes time and is expensive.
I'm a BIG fan of tig welding. I've had a couple of my I-10Ks TIG welded in order to eliminate any loss of electrical connection over time. Something I learned when rebuilding CushCrap antennas. Although, to be honest, the I-10K doesn't need it. Still, it looked nice and everyone was impressed with the work. Also, I use Noalox on ALL my aluminum to aluminum connections and drill a small weep hole just above the 2' solid fiberglass rod. There are a few other "upgrades" I do, but again, really not necessary with the I-10K.
I'm a BIG fan of tig welding. I've had a couple of my I-10Ks TIG welded in order to eliminate any loss of electrical connection over time. Something I learned when rebuilding CushCrap antennas. Although, to be honest, the I-10K doesn't need it. Still, it looked nice and everyone was impressed with the work. Also, I use Noalox on ALL my aluminum to aluminum connections and drill a small weep hole just above the 2' solid fiberglass rod. There are a few other "upgrades" I do, but again, really not necessary with the I-10K.
I wonder...
Unless you can duplicate the operating environment, how do you pre-tune any antenna's SWR? And if you can, why put any kind of matching device on it? Or recommend that they be tuned?
If whatever you have is the 'best' there can be, then why are things ever 'up-graded', or changed, to be even 'better'?
Have you ever wondered how 'they' calibrate an airpressure guage for tires and then manufacture millions of them that are still that accurate? Or are they just sort'a 'close'? Same with "S" meters.
If you have to modify, change, or 'fix' a part that goes into some project, why not order the correct part to start with?
Does 1/10th of 1% really amount to much? Except when it's a tax of some kind?
Lots of 'ponderisms' in life, ain't there?
- 'Doc
Unless you can duplicate the operating environment, how do you pre-tune any antenna's SWR? And if you can, why put any kind of matching device on it? Or recommend that they be tuned?
If whatever you have is the 'best' there can be, then why are things ever 'up-graded', or changed, to be even 'better'?
Have you ever wondered how 'they' calibrate an airpressure guage for tires and then manufacture millions of them that are still that accurate? Or are they just sort'a 'close'? Same with "S" meters.
If you have to modify, change, or 'fix' a part that goes into some project, why not order the correct part to start with?
Does 1/10th of 1% really amount to much? Except when it's a tax of some kind?
Lots of 'ponderisms' in life, ain't there?
- 'Doc
pre tuning isnt hard, all a swr meter reads is the impedence match of the feedline and antenna. 50 (52) ohms for each. the only way it changes with a radio is if the impedence match of the transmitter is mistuned somehow.
unless you mean the conditions of teh antenna placement where it is close to a building or tree, than you look at the directions for the antenna and see it is not ment to be placed in these situations.
"s-meter's" are terriable, there easy to fix with a signal generator and a set load.
unless you mean the conditions of teh antenna placement where it is close to a building or tree, than you look at the directions for the antenna and see it is not ment to be placed in these situations.
"s-meter's" are terriable, there easy to fix with a signal generator and a set load.
Why use a fork when you can just eat with your hands.
The enviroment does not change,i use the same test pole for each antenna sits in the same spot,gives me the same info everytime,Pretuning i actually spend alot of time doing this so the customer does not have to i do use a very short feed line to tune with.Upgrades,always room for improvment in my case better tubing.S meters reading..there a touchy subject,,Ok when i first started buiding these i did alot of test,not some wana-be feid data test, i do long range test over a mountain range from my shop to my base @18 miles when i started laying down s-unit increases over 1.5 s units on my base i Knew then i had it figured out,after that its all numbers ,stay within the created formula and start building.Everything else is either cosmetic of upgrades in my case better tubing and if i see a way of doing something better then i tweak here and there...73sss dan
The enviroment does not change,i use the same test pole for each antenna sits in the same spot,gives me the same info everytime,Pretuning i actually spend alot of time doing this so the customer does not have to i do use a very short feed line to tune with.Upgrades,always room for improvment in my case better tubing.S meters reading..there a touchy subject,,Ok when i first started buiding these i did alot of test,not some wana-be feid data test, i do long range test over a mountain range from my shop to my base @18 miles when i started laying down s-unit increases over 1.5 s units on my base i Knew then i had it figured out,after that its all numbers ,stay within the created formula and start building.Everything else is either cosmetic of upgrades in my case better tubing and if i see a way of doing something better then i tweak here and there...73sss dan