Mobile Building up Little will antennas instead of buying new? Waste or improving?

[Cruiseomatic]

I've got two little will mag mounts as most know. Both are using everything factory currently. Down to the horrendous coax on them.
I tore one down and seen it had no washer under coil end where the star nut tightens down onto the plastic effectively a very weak connection. Haven't pulled the working one apart yet. Is there supposed to be a washer there to increase contact area? I would think.
If so, What size would it be to fit around the stud "perfectly"?
And is the incredibly weak looking "matching network" really necessary? I'm looking to do at least 3 which is what these are rated for. The coil can certainly handle that but I have doubts about the little network they have going on.
The coax is getting replaced with minimum RG-8X mini today if everyone thinks adding the washer, installing better coax, and seeing about the network would help. The coil and stinger can do 300. New coax would too. Its that crap no other antenna I seen have I'm wondering about though.
I plan on replacing it with 9 ft. length like Wilson did or is that "following the myth" type thing?
Is a mag mount the best to do 300? No. Is it most efficient? Hardly. But its all I can come with to get momma bear on the air until someone can help me design a antenna install for her car WITHOUT drilling into the body. And she drives in Houston traffic so power is a necessity to be heard out here and get reports.
RFI and splatter box brain dead day truckers make it hard for others.
And while I am using "enhancers", They will be from RL Italy and my radios to best of my knowledge are specrually pure for spurious emissions. I keep hearing RL I. is a good builder brand and clean RF into a clean box results into clean output.
If you read this far, Thanks for your input and advice.

 

[M0GVZ]

And is the incredibly weak looking "matching network" really necessary?

Absolutely. When you have any antenna length other than an odd multiple of a quarter wavelength long you need to use a tuned circuit to make the feedpoint impedance 50 Ohms. Without that matching network that antenna will only have a low SWR on around the 4 meter/70MHz band. It'll be sky high on 27MHz.

The coax is getting replaced with minimum RG-8X mini today

Waste of time for the length you'll be using.

The coil and stinger can do 300.

Pointless. The mounting method can't cope with that. No magmount can do 300W without a bucket load of issues which could include the car completely cutting out every time you key up the mic.

Is a mag mount the best to do 300? No. Is it most efficient? Hardly. But its all I can come with to get momma bear on the air until someone can help me design a antenna install for her car WITHOUT drilling into the body. And she drives in Houston traffic so power is a necessity to be heard out here and get reports.

You're not going to do that by trying to shove 300W into an antenna system that is crap at best. 300W isn't even a full S point over 100W on a properly calibrated S meter to the receiving station but it provides a whole lot more issues and all to do with RF grounding.

The other thing as well is that none of what you do will address the absolutely piss poor receive that you'll have.

If she wants to be able to be heard as well as actually hear anything then you need to be using a decent sized antenna THAT IS INSTALLED PROPERLY. Every time you double the length you increase the gain fourfold. 100W into a 6ft antenna will give the same radiated power as 400W into a 3ft Lil Wilson but unlike the Lil Wilson the 6ft antenna will also increase the strength of received signals as well.

If she doesn't want RF burns every time she keys the mic (that tingling feeling some CBers get?), or the vehicle electronics to go whacky or a whole bucket load of noise on receive then you need to go fixed body mount ideally in the middle of the roof and you also need to do bonding.

I have a fixed mount, I do bonding, it took me 2 days to do my full installation. I have S0 noise out of town WITH THE PREAMP ON AND ENGINE RUNNING and I have absolutely no problem doing 30 miles with just 4 watts. My friend on the other hand just shoved a magmount on the back of his cab. 200W barely gets him 5 miles down the highway not that it matters because he can't actually hear anyone that far away.

RFI and splatter box brain dead day truckers make it hard for others.

And you want to contribute to that by doing exactly the same as they are so apparently you're no better than those splatter box brain dead day truckers you're having a go at.

www.k0bg.com and the sections on mounting, grounding and bonding. Do your install following those pages and you won't need 300W or anything close.

 

[Cruiseomatic]

Wow. I was learning and agreeing with you until the second to last sentence. No need to throw insults. My radios are tuned and still have the limiters although not allowing any usable modulation output with them. And I'm sorry, But my wife has an IQ higher than the number of knobs on a radio. Something 97% of these "drivers" don't have. I would LOVE to do a hard mount. Believe me I would. But when I asked for ideas and advice on how to do it on her car, No one said really anything useful. Asked a local "shop" and they said the idea I have would just create a dipole effect and wouldn't work to well.
What I was thinking is mount a 2ft. firestik to the useless cargo rack at a 45* angle back or equivalent, Then run two 10 ga. wires in opposite directions to the mounting bolts for body ground. Everyone screamed drill a hole, That is not an option. Point blank can not happen. Need to work with what I have. While it is only 2 ft in physical length, the electrical length is what really matters.....kind of. Not alot of options with this vehicle. Despite the physical length though, All FS antennas are 5/8th wave which is about 22 ft. of wire and top loaded. Wattage amounts are almost ballpark over 100 really but for what I can get a single transistor box for new, I can get a good used 2 and have that slight bit extra. I've already decided against rebuilding these antennas. To old and not worth it in the end. Not for what I need them for shortly. Again, I'm open to ideas on how to had mount an antenna to her car without drilling any holes in the body. And thanks for the informative reply.

 

[w9cll]

www.k0bg.com and the sections on mounting, grounding and bonding.

Everything you need to know about mobile radio operation is at that site. Working radio from the car is always a compromise at some point, modern car have little mounting locations for antennas and little room in the interior for rigs. Adding a big amp with a piss poor antenna is like putting a band aid on a gaping head wound. If you are insistent on an amp then you don't need more than 100w, as has been pointed out over that amount doee not increase your signal by much and can cause a world of problems with the electronics in the car.

While I don't run 11 meters I do have a mobile setup, the rig runs 100 watts and I have nothing more than that. Everything is bonded, I drilled the holes needed and I have very little noise to deal with. I have worked all over the world from mobile, two recent contact are a JA station in Japan and a LU8 station in Argentina.

While not my exact setup this is simular to what I run -

 

[Cruiseomatic]

I'm not stuck on running 200. Just what I had before and I seen it work. As far as bonding, I have no problem bonding the doors, hood, etc... together by means of straps screwed into the panel. And yes, I know a mag mount is a piss poor setup regardless who made it. Especially wilson now days. I did look at the cargo rack on mommas car and it has steel cross members and plastic runners. Bonding one to the other is going to be fun if thats what I end up doing. Still up to ideas.

 

[w9cll]

I did look at the cargo rack on mommas car and it has steel cross members and plastic runners.

Just keep in mind its the metal directly under the antenna that matters the most.

 

[Cruiseomatic]

Right. Which is what this rack mounts to. And its large and flat for the most part.

 

[w9cll]

Right. Which is what this rack mounts to. And its large and flat for the most part.

Except the rack is above the metal and the antenna is not connected directly to it.

 

[Cruiseomatic]

I don't have any other option. Its either bond through the rack to keep lines short to the roof or mag mount. Its a 2012 Escape. You'll see what I'm talking about then.

 

[w9cll]

While I am not a big fan of lip mounts you could mount to the rear hatch. I did that years ago on a Villager mini van. I did some bonding and it worked well.

 

[Cruiseomatic]

Thought about that but then she'd be directional as hell.

 

[w9cll]

Thought about that but then she'd be directional as hell.

Directional somewhat yes but not as bad as you think.

 

[Cruiseomatic]

To my knowledge, At least 80% or more of her signal would go forward.

 

[w9cll]

To my knowledge, At least 80% or more of her signal would go forward.

Maybe not 80% but remember efficiently is important. If you have a better ground mounted there than the roof rack the antenna would would be more efficient. Again mobile operation is a total compromise. I would rather have directivity then huge losses with poor grounding with a mag mount or roof rack. Just food for thought.

 

[Cruiseomatic]

Compromise definitively. I'd sacrifice a little efficiency for omni directionality. And even with a hatch mount,Would still need to bond it to the body and all that.