CB vs GMRS in rugged terrain, CB wins

[towerdog]

I say given the choice for utility comm, the CB.

In my back yard, there are 5,000' mountains, cliffs, rocks, etc. Terrain is hell, even the best bubblepack GMRS will yield less than 1/4 mile range in some areas.

The lower frequency of 11m seems to penetrate the earth and rock, groundwave effect i believe. I might be mistaken, but it is fact there is one spot about 1/4 of a mile from the house, where the stream turns at the end of the holler, where
(1) a 2 watt, motorola gmrs radio's signal would not get out
and that.
(2) a very old Realistic TRC-211,(5 channel radio shack handheld with a centerloaded 4 foot telescopic antenna) using only 1 watt with antenna pulled half way out could be heard as crystal clear as AM gets.

And also, one night right after I set up my base station I got the idea i was gonna play radio with my wife and kids, and test the range of the TRC-211.
I got in my truck, drove down the path, all the way down the mountain to the blacktop, 5 miles to town and beyond. I got almost 10 miles of clear comm with a damn 1980s vintage handheld with the telescopic antenna hangin out the window of my truck. After about 10 miles I went over a small ridge and signal went from clear to barely audible to nothing in the next half a mile.
Before I am called a liar I will say I dont expect 10 miles of it, hell I was expecting it to maybe give me 2 miles. It was a clear night, my house is up on the ridge and the road is down the valley, thou at the time my antenna was about 30 feet lower than the ridge blocking line of site.

Did they just make better radios back then or was it the gigantic antenna that gives it damn near the capability of a mobile rig. (by the way, power output as stated in the user manual is 3.5 watts, half watt shy of FCC limit)

What kind of range could I expect from a high quality handheld with rubber duck?

The main point of it all is that in the wilderness cell phone dos not work, and I just need a way to call out. if I find myself up sh*t creek, the TRC could be a paddle. It also nice to call to postpone dinner or cancel dinner so my wife does not put me in the dog house for not being on time.

 

[doctor]

It depends on the band conditions to talk back home.
If you want a hand held or a regular mobile radio big difference.

If you want vhf...try MURS and a descent radio..and a base at home..vertex are great, 40 miles most of the time pure fm no static.

A little money spent goes a long way in communication my friend.

DOCTOR/795

 

[hotrod]

I say given the choice for utility comm, the CB.

In my back yard, there are 5,000' mountains, cliffs, rocks, etc. Terrain is hell, even the best bubblepack GMRS will yield less than 1/4 mile range in some areas.

The lower frequency of 11m seems to penetrate the earth and rock, groundwave effect i believe. I might be mistaken, but it is fact there is one spot about 1/4 of a mile from the house, where the stream turns at the end of the holler, where
(1) a 2 watt, motorola gmrs radio's signal would not get out
and that.
(2) a very old Realistic TRC-211,(5 channel radio shack handheld with a centerloaded 4 foot telescopic antenna) using only 1 watt with antenna pulled half way out could be heard as crystal clear as AM gets.

And also, one night right after I set up my base station I got the idea i was gonna play radio with my wife and kids, and test the range of the TRC-211.
I got in my truck, drove down the path, all the way down the mountain to the blacktop, 5 miles to town and beyond. I got almost 10 miles of clear comm with a damn 1980s vintage handheld with the telescopic antenna hangin out the window of my truck. After about 10 miles I went over a small ridge and signal went from clear to barely audible to nothing in the next half a mile.
Before I am called a liar I will say I dont expect 10 miles of it, hell I was expecting it to maybe give me 2 miles. It was a clear night, my house is up on the ridge and the road is down the valley, thou at the time my antenna was about 30 feet lower than the ridge blocking line of site.

Did they just make better radios back then or was it the gigantic antenna that gives it damn near the capability of a mobile rig. (by the way, power output as stated in the user manual is 3.5 watts, half watt shy of FCC limit)

What kind of range could I expect from a high quality handheld with rubber duck?

The main point of it all is that in the wilderness cell phone dos not work, and I just need a way to call out. if I find myself up sh*t creek, the TRC could be a paddle. It also nice to call to postpone dinner or cancel dinner so my wife does not put me in the dog house for not being on time.

yea those were great radios.dont waste your money or time
tring a rubber duck antenna not worth it.best ya could do is get the right adapter from radio shack and buy a mag mount antenna from there a mount a small magnet mount
antenna on roof.i have similar problems cell phone dont work were i live my terrain isnt
nothing like yours a few hills but nothing major.i thought about going murs as doctor said
i believe they have real gain antennas ya can use with them.if i could get 7 miles of
clear txing/rxing id be happy

 

[towerdog]

I have another rig I need to install in my truck. The necessity of a rubber duck is so i can scale cliffs and through thickets and all around without having the antenna get caught or break. the do make longer rubberducks, or at least they did. I had one on a realistic 3 channel i picked up at yard sale as a kid. it came with telescopic antenna but had a rubber duck that attached to the stub with a set screw. it had to have been every bit of 18". and here is a 24" example SA2 24-Inch Flexible Extended Range Antenna

 

[hotrod]

I have another rig I need to install in my truck. The necessity of a rubber duck is so i can scale cliffs and through thickets and all around without having the antenna get caught or break. the do make longer rubberducks, or at least they did. I had one on a realistic 3 channel i picked up at yard sale as a kid. it came with telescopic antenna but had a rubber duck that attached to the stub with a set screw. it had to have been every bit of 18". and here is a 24" example SA2 24-Inch Flexible Extended Range Antenna

id perfer the telescopic stell antenna.they seem to work better thru my experience
however the rubber duck antennas are more versatile and would work better for your purpose.

 

[dudmuck]

(1) a 2 watt, motorola gmrs radio's signal would not get out
and that.
(2) a very old Realistic TRC-211,(5 channel radio shack handheld with a centerloaded 4 foot telescopic antenna) using only 1 watt with antenna pulled half way out could be heard as crystal clear as AM gets.

I can assume you are using GMRS simplex.
Because if you were using a hilltop repeater, you would get good results from GMRS.

11m CB will do way better than UHF simplex, just as you described.
UHF signals reflect off of just about anything. These reflections can combine to cancel out the signal.

11 meters does not suffer from such reflections, and can work around obstructions where simplex UHF cannot.
If you were using GMRS thru a hilltop repeater, then you would find GMRS giving better results. Because a hilltop repeater is line-of-site to most everything.

 

[towerdog]

That actually makes sense. UHF has tendency to reflect and cancel, thanks that cleared things up. This actually started as a debate with several friends and aquaintences with my argument based on experience and theirs well, interpreting a question I got "wrong" on my tech exam.
I'll see how it works with the 24" duck, but I think doctor is right, MURS would be the way to go. Surplus land mobile radios are cheap, and could also be made to interop with 2m ham and VHFmarine, you know, in a dire emergency of course.

 

[unit_399]

The real difference between CB and GMRS is AM vs FM. At night when atmospheric noise and skip is non-existent, the CB and the GMRS will be pretty evenly matched, with the edge probably going to the CB. I'm assuming base-to-mobile communications here. During the day, I think the GMRS FM will do a better job simply because of the noise factor. The Realitic handheld won't do much against a 7 pound noise level. So, it depends on conditions, time of day, terrain, etc. If the base station is located on high ground, then I think I'd go with the GMRS. There is less traffic to fight, and FM is noise -free. Where we live here in the mountains, we have both a GMRS and a CB base. During the day, the GMRS is the only way to go

- 399

 

[n8fgb]

You guys are either new to CB, or forgot what it was like during cycle 23. Once cycle 24 gets going, you wont be able to talk across the street. So i would not depend on cb radio at all.
Rich