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Dual polarity quad...possible to build?

Broke Spoke

KN4JQP
Mar 26, 2012
30
6
18
Deatsville, AL
I'm looking to build a homebrew 2 element quad like the old pdl-2. I'm having trouble figuring out how to construct a dual polarity driven element. If it is possible to build one, is it still a full wave antenna with 2 feed points in the line? Any comments or suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks.
 

It is possible to do it. Use two driven elements on a single set of spreaders. Tees on the ends of the spreaders, two wires - one fed on the side of the quad, the other at the bottom or top. Use the switch box to feed whichever wire you want for whichever polarity you desire at the moment.

Done. Of course, you'll need a matching network for each antenna wire. In the end you have three loops. One is reflector, the other two share the same spreaders and dimensions but are separately fed. Only two sets of spreaders.
 
Homer, what would the spacing be between the 2 driven elements and would this construction narrow the bandwidth? Is there a website that might show the proper way to construct the driven elements? Aren't the old Avanti pdl-2 quads dual polarity with a single element? I've seen a website that has dual polarity quads on a single driven element but it sems that would be a nightmare to tune.
 
I'm looking to build a homebrew 2 element quad like the old pdl-2. I'm having trouble figuring out how to construct a dual polarity driven element. If it is possible to build one, is it still a full wave antenna with 2 feed points in the line? Any comments or suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks.

Broke Spoke, check out this Website Signal Engineering - The Evolution of High Performance CB Antennas!

SE use to make a dual polarity voltage fed quad using a 1/4 wire stub working against the boom, or when the boom was too short, like with the two element version, they used another wire in parallel with the feeder. You will see that at the Website noted below. They are out of business now, but another firm bought them out and you can find them at: ttp://www.lightningantennas.com/Quads/

I have pictures of their feeder from a copy of a copy of a copy out of one of their very poor manuals, but I'm not sure how readable it would be. Click here: View attachment Signal Engineering L4+ Quad.pdf It is their feeder that makes this dual polarity quad unique.




sandman you are wrong regarding the PDL2. It is a full wave quad, the size is very close to the same as any other quad using a side length that is a 1/4 wavelength or about 9'> for CB. According to the Avanti instruction manual for the PDLII, the wire for the driven element is 458.4" /4= 114.6/12" = 9.55' feet. Where did you get this CB BS about it being a 1/2 wave. All quads work as a 1/2 wave, is that what you meant? Is 9.55' feet larger than you thought? Or, do you just look at the pictures.

The PDL2 just uses a folded feeder setup that uses a gamma device to match, and this allows for current feeding a dual polarity quad. It is a very complicated setup, however, and it might be hard to do homebuilt and from scratch...unless you have a lot of antenna building experience and beams in particular or you have some good parts from a production model.

The SE idea I noted above uses a 1/4 wire stub attached at two adjacent corners, and each one then feeds at a voltage node, instead of at a current node where you will have an insulator separating the driven element wire.

Feeding at a voltage node forces the polarity factor for the antenna to be the opposite of what we tend to find when feeding at a current node. The wires don't radiate like you think they do either.

Get you a good book on quads, you need to read up and try and understand the differences. Don't get me wrong here, it is fine to have ideas, but try and check stuff out a little first. And don't just look at the pictures.

I think you'll find very few dual polarity quads that are current fed. If you do find one, I would like to see pictures of it, so don't just tell me about one that you know about.
 
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I never made one, but somewhere along the way I saw such a one. I can't give you the measurements, but being who I am I'd try it to find out the right and wrong of it. The info I gave is limited, but not unknown to have been utilized. I wish I had the answers for that for you.

The info that Marconi supplied is what one usually is led to, and coincides with a practice that seems to be more common for the dual polarity quad. i am not good for much on this, but I'll say I'd be doing the simplest possibility first and moving toward the more difficult as I advanced in understanding.
It is good advice to do some studying on it before committing to it.
 
Take a look at these articles
 

Attachments

  • Quad Dual Feed HOR-VER POL.pdf
    212.9 KB · Views: 82
  • Quad Dual Polarity Loop.pdf
    25.3 KB · Views: 70
  • hy-gain+quad+2+elementos.pdf
    522.7 KB · Views: 63
Thanks for the replies. Marconi, lightning antennas is the website I was referring to. I've tried to find and download their pdf on their quads. Not much luck or not enough time to spend looking for it...lol. I have SE's website bookmarked. I referr to it all the time. Thanks for the links. I will check it out. I didn't realize that the feedpoints were voltage fed though. It puts the idea in a different perspective. Thanks again for the info. 73s
 
Well I rectum I need to clarify my point, that we don't see many dual polarity quads around, and that I don't know how easy it would be to construct and tune one like CK describes...from his youth as he says.

It looks almost too simple to me, so I wonder why we don't see such an application used all the time. It looks real cheap and so simple.

So, I'm sure of only on thing, somebody on this forum is bound to go right out and build this monster, and then we'll all find out first hand.

Homer, how about it?

Keep us posted on all the details.
 
Broke Spoke, check out this Website Signal Engineering - The Evolution of High Performance CB Antennas!

SE use to make a dual polarity voltage fed quad using a 1/4 wire stub working against the boom, or when the boom was too short, like with the two element version, they used another wire in parallel with the feeder. You will see that at the Website noted below. They are out of business now, but another firm bought them out and you can find them at: ttp://www.lightningantennas.com/Quads/

I have pictures of their feeder from a copy of a copy of a copy out of one of their very poor manuals, but I'm not sure how readable it would be. Click here: View attachment 7129 It is their feeder that makes this dual polarity quad unique.




sandman you are wrong regarding the PDL2. It is a full wave quad, the size is very close to the same as any other quad using a side length that is a 1/4 wavelength or about 9'> for CB. According to the Avanti instruction manual for the PDLII, the wire for the driven element is 458.4" /4= 114.6/12" = 9.55' feet. Where did you get this CB BS about it being a 1/2 wave. All quads work as a 1/2 wave, is that what you meant? Is 9.55' feet larger than you thought? Or, do you just look at the pictures.

The PDL2 just uses a folded feeder setup that uses a gamma device to match, and this allows for current feeding a dual polarity quad. It is a very complicated setup, however, and it might be hard to do homebuilt and from scratch...unless you have a lot of antenna building experience and beams in particular or you have some good parts from a production model.

The SE idea I noted above uses a 1/4 wire stub attached at two adjacent corners, and each one then feeds at a voltage node, instead of at a current node where you will have an insulator separating the driven element wire.

Feeding at a voltage node forces the polarity factor for the antenna to be the opposite of what we tend to find when feeding at a current node. The wires don't radiate like you think they do either.

Get you a good book on quads, you need to read up and try and understand the differences. Don't get me wrong here, it is fine to have ideas, but try and check stuff out a little first. And don't just look at the pictures.

I think you'll find very few dual polarity quads that are current fed. If you do find one, I would like to see pictures of it, so don't just tell me about one that you know about.
YES MR. MARCONI . DEFINITELY YOUR MORE TECHNICAL ON ANTENNAS THAN ME AND ALOT FOLK LURE I GET EITHER FROM THE WEB OR SPOKEN ABOUT . I RESPECT YOU FOR THAT. THE ONLY THING I KNOW IS 1/2 WAVE VERT, 1/2 WAVE HORIZ. WHAT I MEANT WAS A FULL WAVE BEAM. SOMEONE TOLD ME IT CAN BE MOD. FOR FULL WAVE. ONE WITH ONE FEED POINT . I MIGHT BE WRONG . IF IM WRONG ,MY EARS ARE OPEN TO CORRECTION. SOMETIMES I LIKE TO PONDER ABOVE THE SPEC.S . AND BE OPEN MINDED.
 
A few years ago (probably on this forum) there was a link to a site that had detailed info on how to build basically exact replicas of a few commercial antennas, the PDLII among them. It showed and described how to build the "orbital gamma match" and all that.

Unfortunately, I don't remember the address.
 

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