Ecoflex coax opinions?

[2RT307]

Hi guys, I'm looking to upgrade my coax and also bury the installation. I came across an ad for Ecoflex (sold by www.vibroplex.com) and thought it looked pretty good, spec wise.

http://www.vibroplex.com/techdocs/ssb/Ecoflex10.pdf

My needs are certainly less than the specs, as I am only running HF, my runs are short (about 35 feet)... don't ask. Power currently is only 1KW, but I might move into something legal limit at a later date.

Just wanted to get opinions on this stuff? Does it hold up well under direct bury conditions as they advertise? Are there better alternatives such as the Times Microwave DB? I need a flexible cable due to my installation, and don't have a lot of room to bring in a stiff cable.

73,
Brett

 

[camaro1]

with only a 35' run you could buy the crappiest ratshack RG8 coax and no one would know the difference on the other end

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

with only a 35' run you could buy the crappiest ratshack RG8 coax and no one would know the difference on the other end

Until he fired up the amplifier and the cable started sending SOS in smoke signals.

 

[2RT307]

The price is not outrageous compared to high quality Times Microwave. And again, I want to direct bury and preferably not have to dig it up due to water ingress or rotting after a few years. Yes, I know the runs are short, but want a high quality low loss coax to minimize any stray rf and maximize the lifespan of being buried without a pvc pipe cover . I just wanted to see if anyone had used it. Radio Shack and truck stop coax isn't something being considered.

73,
Brett

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

Unless I missed i saw nothing about being rated for direct burial. Unless it is rated for that you should never bury coax cable as the outer jacket can eventually allow water to seep in and ruin the cable. . For what you want there is nothing wrong with Davis Bury Flex which is available at most decent vendors of coax cable.

 

[RatsoW8]

I've been looking at buriable coax as well and it seems the only difference in the Davis bury-flex and the non buriable is the PE outer jacket. Times Microwave sells an RG8X sized coax with a PE outer jacket. Two versions and one is watertight even if the outer shell is nicked. LMR-240 and LMR-240-DB. I wonder if any PE jacketed coax is buriable and watertight as long as the outer jacket isn't compromised.

I've had two runs of regular old RG8X poly jacketed coax buried directly in the dirt about 3 inches down for 5 years now and no problems that I can tell with water incursion but, I'm going to replace it in the spring with some bury rated coax.

 

[fourstringburn]

The coax you mentioned is specifically designed for UHF frequencies because the higher the frequency, the higher the loss in the transmission line. This particular cable is rated up to 6 gHz frequencies.

Even LMR cables was intended for VHF and UHF that's why you see large commercial grade LMR 1700 to minimize losses at extended UHF ranges. I use LMR400 for my 2m/440 antenna, for longer runs at these frequencies LMR600 would be better.

For HF all you need is RG213u which is direct burial and sunlight resistant. RG213U has the solid dialectic and it's suited best for HF especially when running high power.

There are many brands but I would stay away from the imported ones since I had a bad experience with one. ABR cables, DX engineering, and Belden brands I have used and I would go with.

Don't get hung up on spec's that are insignificant especially shorter lengths under 100 ft. RG213U and LMR 400 spec's are minimal differences at less than a 100 ft. and below 30 MHz. Above 30MHz is where the differences come into play. That's where LMR becomes the better choice for the higher frequencies above the HF bands.

 

[Beetle]

Watch the bend radius, and always use the "repeated bending" spec for whatever cable you're using. In this case it's listed as 80mm, which is just over 3 inches (3.14...inches -- sounds like pi!). And remember, that's a three-inch RADIUS. If you're making a coaxial choke with this coax, you need at least a SIX inch diameter (diameter = 2x radius).

Also, the loss at the various frequencies is shown in x db per hundred METERS. Keep metric vs. American in mind when comparing.

 

[2RT307]

Unless I missed i saw nothing about being rated for direct burial. Unless it is rated for that you should never bury coax cable as the outer jacket can eventually allow water to seep in and ruin the cable. . For what you want there is nothing wrong with Davis Bury Flex which is available at most decent vendors of coax cable.

All the Ecoflex coax cables are rated as direcy bury, and I think it says thay on the Vibroflex site. O will look at the Davis stuff, too.

Thanks,
Brett

 

[2RT307]

The coax you mentioned is specifically designed for UHF frequencies because the higher the frequency, the higher the loss in the transmission line. This particular cable is rated up to 6 gHz frequencies.

Even LMR cables was intended for VHF and UHF that's why you see large commercial grade LMR 1700 to minimize losses at extended UHF ranges. I use LMR400 for my 2m/440 antenna, for longer runs at these frequencies LMR600 would be better.

For HF all you need is RG213u which is direct burial and sunlight resistant. RG213U has the solid dialectic and it's suited best for HF especially when running high power.

There are many brands but I would stay away from the imported ones since I had a bad experience with one. ABR cables, DX engineering, and Belden brands I have used and I would go with.

Don't get hung up on spec's that are insignificant especially shorter lengths under 100 ft. RG213U and LMR 400 spec's are minimal differences at less than a 100 ft. and below 30 MHz. Above 30MHz is where the differences come into play. That's where LMR becomes the better choice for the higher frequencies above the HF bands.

Good stuff, fourstring. Our club had a Times Microwave rep do a presentation on what you covered here. I *might* end up using one of these runs for 2 meter/440 in the future, and while I left that out of my previous posts, it was a consideration. I will look at more of the suggestions you guys have, and should be placing an order soon. Trying to clean up the appearance of my shack in my back yard to keep my wife happy. As they say... happy wife, happy life!

73,
Brett

 

[fourstringburn]

Curious to know what the Times Microwave rep had to say. Can you recall and share it with us?

Also the cable you were questioning about would work very well on 440 MHz and beyond. It looks like Heliax cable.

The only reason why I would use LMR on 2m /440Mhz instead of Heliax and the Ecoflex is because these cables use different connectors which would require adapters to step back down to UHF connectors, and the stripping tools that are recommended to do a proper job are costly.

I looked into Heliax cable before and I haven't found any UHF connectors or I would have used it.

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

I looked into Heliax cable before and I haven't found any UHF connectors or I would have used it.

You must not have looked too hard. Andrew as well as Amphenol makes a complete line of connectors for Heliax . I use LDF4-50 which is 1/2 inch heliax and have a combination of type N connectors both male and female and also UHF connectors both male and female. They install directly on the cable end. Even the 3 1\8 inch stuff I used in broadcasting had type N, UHF, and BNC connectors built in to a connector. You pay $$$ for them but they are available.

 

[fourstringburn]

You must not have looked too hard.

You're right! I did a little more research and I did find UHF connectors from Davis connectors. They are pricey at $35.00 a piece.

Where UHF frequencies are concerned since losses are greater, it still appears Heliax cable has the less loss. What I found may be helpful to this thread is that at 100 meter lengths;

Heliax LDF4-50 has a 4.75 db loss at 450 Mhz. (1.4 db loss at 100 ft.)

EcoFlex 1/2 inch. 15 plus has a 5.8 db loss at 432 MHz ( can't find spec at 100 ft. should be comparable to LMR)

LMR600 has a 5.6 db loss at 450 MHz (1.7 db loss at 100 ft.)

Either cables would be ideal to use for VHF/UHF at your station especially at lengths under 100ft when you decide to put up a 2m/440 antenna. Heliax LDF4-50 stills appears to be the best.

 

[222DBFL]

RFS and Eupen also make connectors for LDF4-50a. This is the preferred coax for commercial cell sites from the hardline coax which is normally LDF7-50A, or 1 5/8" coax, to the equipment or antenna. I have seen runs of ldf4-50a goes all the way up the tower, some runs up to 200+ ft, mostly to microwave dishes. They also use either lmr400 or LDF4-50A for their gps units from the surge arrester. These runs are normally about 30-50ft. And as far as frequeny goes, all the coax listed above I have seen being used from 800-2100Mhz. The coax runs from the hardline to equipment or antennas vary from 6ft to about 40ft max. And as far applying the connector to the coax, there are several different methods. Box type tools, drill type tools, and I have even seen them done with a good sharp razor knife. As far as lasting, I've seen lmr400 in the FL sun and weather that is over 10yrs old and the worst that happens is the outer sheathing is bleached. These type coax usually have some uv blocking properties, but the sun is relentless. Just my experience with these coax and their use. And yes the connectors aren't cheap. All specialty items seem to be lol.

 

[M0GVZ]

Running Ecoflex 10 here. I was very impressed by its construction and flexibility over other coaxes with the same loss.