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Ham licensing and beginning level equipment

PLAFETTE

Janie
Mar 3, 2009
18
0
11
Oregon


Well, that explains why 10Mhz seemed like 11Mhz on your rig. You can find some inexpensive signal generators on ebay: BK 2050 RF Signal Generator - eBay (item 170307567336 end time Mar-08-09 20:51:09 PDT)

It sounds like you can get a fair price for your radio on ebay. A lot of times collectors like old radios like that. Before you sink money into a signal generator, you might consider whether you're better off selling it, saving the signal generator money, and buying a litte newer SW radio. Another thing to consider would be selling it all and purchasing an older HF Ham radio that also has general receive (most do). You could probably find a decent older Yaesu or Kenwood for a pretty reasonable price, get your ham license and then both listen AND talk :)

Something to think about?

Yes, you have gotten me thinking about it. More on that below.

I decided to improve my antenna a little. Did some review reading about basic dipoles and folded dipoles and the like. I have a 15 foot piece of coax here I was going to use to connect the dipole to the radio. But then I saw these issues about impedance matching of the feeding line to the imped. of the antenna. The radio manual itself shows that if a dipole is used, each half is connected to a different terminal in back of the radio. So I thought - "Why use a feed line at all?" Why not just attach each half of the dipole directly to it's own radio terminal? For starters, that seemed like the quickest and easiest thing to do - and maybe it would even be better than using a coax or twin TV ant wire feed line; so that is what I did. I kept the original "antenna" out there on the balcony under the roof and strung another wire temporarily inside my place diagonally across the room.

I have gotten better reception with this arrangement, though I am not all that thrilled about it. On AM band I did pick up a Seattle station and a Los Angeles station, along with more Spanish-speaking stations. But still nothing from across the Pacific Ocean. With my dad's old HEathkit HB 200 ( I think that model) I used to get a lot of AM stations from Eastern Europe in the late evenings. I am not finding ANY of that now with this radio. It seems odd to me because this Lafayette seems to be constructed to be a very substantial radio that you could almost through off the roof without damaging the case. The HB 200 was flimsy and trashy with very poor selectivity - but it seems to have 5 or 10 times more sensitivity than this KT320 Lafayette. I never had any serious antenna but a wire on the Heathkit either so that's not what it is.

LICENSING etc
Selling things is a lot of "detail work" - which I hate doing. Maybe Craig's list would be a quick way to sell the radio easily. I have quite a bit of small computer related stuff I could sell along with the KT320 and the "cheapie" on eBAY if I wanted to bother doing the whole eBAY thing. I know they make it very easy to set things up but one still has to take good quality pictures and write it all up very carefully. Worse than that, I don't like packaging things up and shipping them, those kinds of tasks and errands are the kinds of things I procrastinate forever and you can't do that with something you have sold on eBAY.


But anyway, I don't HAVE to sell things to carry forward, at least not right away.

I have been peeking around and found out the the Morse Code is no longer required for a license. So NOW, the licensing idea has MUCH more appeal. I have downloaded a number of PDF files for studying for the technician's level test. I could probably get through all that in a few weeks if I applied myself. Lately my "academic" study focus has been the learning of Spanish.

The big issue for me with licensing might be that my housing location would not allow for any "real" antenna. I am sure I could have one of those satellite dish antennas on my balcony, but anything else that is visible would be against the regulations around here.

Do you have any directions to point me for this antenna issue and for beginning level equipment?
Searching through the world of transceivers is a whole dimension different - with different criteria - than just for receivers. I need some good starting points for this.

I should mention, that I don't want to go through all this work just to talk on the radio to people who live within a hundred or two miles. If there is something of interest "out there" for me, I would think it would be people in other countries. It would be fun to practice my Spanish with someone by radio for example. And I want to learn Italian next and could practice with native Italian speakers by radio too.

The power needed (I would think) and other things for long distance like that probably require a higher level license. I could do that though - I am not intimidated by any of the material that I would need to study. The antenna might be the biggest problem for me - and if not that, then the cost.

As for the exams; the radio theory / electronics portions are the part I have the most training for already because of my MS in Physics and my past excursions into radio theory. Learning the regulations and that sort of thing would be the more boring part - but it's only memorization.


Should we take this discussion to a different area of the forum - since we are not talking about repairs now?
 

I have been doing some research on transceivers

Hi;

I have been looking around on eBAY for transceivers that I think would be good for me if I only get a tech license. (Not that I am totally clear on what would be best for tech level).

(And there is still the big question as to whether antenna limitations make this whole thing pointless).


There are quite a few available in the $100 to $200 range - though the bidding is not finished and most have a day or three to go yet, so the prices will go up to about $200 or above for most of these.
Here is the eBAY search I was looking through.
I came across a few of the ones I mention below while poking around the forum and seeing eBAY listings there (ie here at this forum).


transceivers, Ham Radio, CB Radio items on eBay.com

(That should all be one continuous link URL)
It was just a search for "shortwave transceivers"
in the Radios-CB-Ham-Shortwave category.

Here are some of the names and a few details of radios that looked interesting to me
and which had lots of good reviews:

I have pasted in a FEW of the typical comments found in reviews for some of these
----

Yaesu FT-1807M (MOBILE RADIO)
50 W UHF FM Transceiver in MINT condition.
The FT-1807M is a ruggedly-built, high-performance 50-Watt 400-470Mhz mobile FM transceiver

------------
ICOM IC-730
Average rating: 4.8/5
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/338
EXCELLENT reviews!
----
Yaesu FT-101E
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/4541
Average rating: 4.8/5
EXCELLENT reviews!

"I've owned my FT-101E since the mid-late 80's. It was my first HF set and I will never, ever, part with it. Mine is not the greatest looking example, the case is marked and scratched, but it's performance more than makes up for this. The only maintenance I've had to carry out in the 20 or so years I've owned it has been to periodically clean the relays and band switches, and to replace the 12BY7A driver valve. The rx'ed audio on both SSB and CW ( I have the CW filter fitted) is an absolute joy and the tx'd audio always solicits very nice comments.

If you find one in good condition, don't hesitate,"


------

Kenwood TM-733A
Average rating: 4.6/5

One reviewer said:
It is the best radio ever made by kenwood in mobile class. V7A is back in my home shack as a base, I'm still married to my 733 in the car!
One more comment folks, 733 is used on the international space station SS1. Now you know why... Only the best stuff is used on space shuttles



---
The Yaesu FT-2800M
Yaesu FT-2800M, Yaesu FT2800 Mobile Transceiver


"65 watts of output. Yet no fan is required thanks to Yaesu's new die cast chassis/heat-sink design. The ergonomics are unsurpassed for safe mobile operation. Four power levels are available: 65, 25, 10 and 5 watts. And weather channels are built in with Severe Weather Alert capability. The FT-2800M is MIL-STD 810 tough. You
get extended receive from 134-174 MHz."


What do you think?
Am I looking in the right direction?
Am I being too "cheap?"
or am I off the mark and missing what might be best for my needs?

I know you can't predict exactly what would be best for me, but I mean mostly in terms of frequencies and power
and again, the antenna issue. I am trying to keep my cost down because I am not sure I devoted I will be to this hobby. I typically am intermittant and keep coming back to each of my interests every few months or years.

thanks again!
 
Wow! Check THIS out!

Maybe my antenna limitations
are not all that serious after all!

I found a thread at eHAM.net forum
about BALCONY attenna issues
and this guy gave a URL to his full tech sheet
on how to build a portable tunable dipole good for FOUR bands!

Here is a sketchy description and below that I have given the URL to the whole article.

-----
I use a 20-meter dipole that has switches inserted in the right places so I can make it work on 20-, 17-, 15-, 12-, and 10-meters. I also have clip-on torroid loading coils for 30- and 40-meters (they clip across the 10-meter switch to effectively center-load each arm of the dipole). I place the feed on the center of the balcony railing, and extend the dipole up to the upper corners of the balcony, then let the ends drop straight down (sort of like an "M" configuration). Anyway, this works great and is very difficult to see. And the dipole length is constant (band changing by flipping switches only).

-----

Here is the link to the full article:

http://www.ad5x.com/images/Articles/Dipole RevA.pdf

His posting was at:
http://www.eham.net/forums/AntennaRestrictions/4973

and his profile (for the sake of giving him credit)
is:
http://www.eham.net/user/profile/AD5X
 
Sorry for the disjointed thread - I moved some of the posts to start a new one.

To talk to people in other countries, you're going to need at least a General class amateur radio license so you can get on the HF bands. You have to start with the Technician test, then the General test. It doesn't sound like it will be very difficult for you at all.

Your antenna situation is going to be your biggest limitation/challenge, especially when the propogation isn't so good, like it is now. As the propogation improves, you'll find more and more distant stations coming in on your shortwave, also. BTW, the lack of consistent propogation right now is probably your biggest limitation to what is available to listen to on your SW radio. It comes and goes, and will get better over the next few years (it's a solar cycle thing).

When the propogation is good, any type of antenna will get you all kinds of crazy contacts, even that balcony antenna. You can make all kinds of wire antennas that will fit in your attic or run them through the trees so noone notices. Some people even load up their rain gutters as antennas! While you're going to have some antenna limitations, figuring out how to get around those limitations and still make contacts can be part of the fun. BTW, there are also "flag pole antennas" that people put up. Basically, your HOA or any CC&R's can't tell you (by federal law) that you can't put up a reasonably sized flag pole and fly the U.S. flag, if you want. So why not do that and turn it into an antenna? ;)

Force 12, Inc. Amateur and Commercial Antennas and Towers

As far as which radio to get, I'll probably leave that to others to advise you on. There are so many good older ones available. Before you decide on that, it might be helpful to find some local hams in your area and get some hands on experience with some of their equipment. Try the local ham club. You'll probably even find some people that have some equipment that they would be willing to part with at a fair price to help get a new ham on the air.
 
Thinking about a lot of different considerations...

I've been doing a lot of reading of Ham topics and radio reviews and watching eBAY prices.

I am just going to mention the things I have been thinking about and looking into and I hope that some of those who read this might have some suggestions or feedback for me about one or more of these topics.

The technician level license (which I am studying for) allows VHF but not HF, so I have been looking at antenna configurations for a 2m setup and these do not seem to be nearly as limiting or challenging as what would be good for the HF bands. For example:
Simple 2-meter apartment antenna:
2 METER ANTENNAS - CHEAP AND EASY!

BTW, the flagpole idea is great, but I am on the 2nd floor of a 3-floor unit, so there is a balcony right above mine. I know they would not allow my flagpole to be mounted out beyond my balcony railing and without that, it could only be from ground to ceiling - about 8 feet.

I didn't look all that carefully, but I don't think that flagpole antenna had the option of having a coil built into it to reduce the need for length/height. (they do that "coil loading" thing with CB antennas, and I see it on police car HF antennas, so I am guessing that is one way to shorten the antenna length. But I think that coil setup also probably results in a narrow bandwidth resonance - which is good for Tx on one particular band, but probably not so good for listening nor tx-ing on any other. I have not done any reading about these coil-loaded antennas. I am not even sure if that is the right name for that kind of antenna.

I don't see any rigs (at prices under $300) that will both TX and RX on both HF AND VHF. Such a rig would be good for a General class license as well as the technician level license. So I will probably get a 2m band HF radio to start with. At least with that, I can do some kind of communications when I get my tech license, and begin to get more familiar with the practical realities that go with that.

While I will probably do that, a HF transceiver will not help me with my interest in broader frequency range "listening". I really want a decent receiver with fairly broad band general coverage. I could be wrong, and if I am I hope someone will say so, but I don't think this circa 1962 "single conversion" Lafayette KT 320 is going to do a whole lot better than it is right now even if I work a little more on the antenna. That's mostly because of my being limited to my balcony and indoors for the antenna placement - and the fact that it has very poor image rejection (I think that is the right term). On the 4.5 to 30MHz band there are extremely loud "intrusions" of AM broadcast band stations. Since to pick up anything "real" on that higher band I need the volume turned up, those "splattering" AM stations break my eardrums!

All I am really finding on this radio is some 7MHz (40m band?) AM music/news broadcasts from Mexico in the evening and and a few overseas - Japan, seems like some German, and maybe even China? - (I'm going by the sounds of the languages). These are mostly in the early morning hours.

Since I am wanting a decent receiver, if I am going to go for the General license in any short amount of time, then it seems like it would be smarter to get that HF band transceiver soon rather than buying a receiver now and then later on buying an HF radio that will also transmit. Knowing me, buying the HF transceiver now would motivate me better at going for the 2nd level (General) license right after getting my tech license.

=====

Back to the the antenna issue - for ANY radio on HF bands. I have an old 1972 "SW radio projects" book that shows a very basic "antenna tuner" for 3 to 30MHz, which is simply a variable-tap inductor and variable capacitor that can be switched to be either in parallel or in series. The antenna connects to the top of the capacitor and the tap on the coil goes to ... if I remember correctly, the 2nd radio antenna jack. (the low end of the coil goes to the radio ground terminal.

Anyway, I recognize this as a basic "band-pass" filter, at least when the cap and ind are in parallel, but I think that it is still a band-pass filter when in series too. I have not thought that through enough to be sure. The book says one changes the tuner capacitance as one changes the frequency one is trying to listen to.

So I am wondering if the $40 - $60 "antenna tuners" on eBAY - like the MFJ 941 "versa tuner" are really anything much more than this. I know that MFJ 941 has a meter - which would help a bunch. This very basic circuit project just says to listen to the background sound level or station loudness as you change the var capacitance of the tuner. If the radio has an S-meter, that should peak when the antenna is best 'tuned' by this little antenna tuner.


Actually my old Lafayette HAS an S-meter so maybe I could put together this simple little circuit and try it out on that. I have yet to see that S-meter register anything. I think it moves a tiny bit once in a while on a really loud AM music/news type foreign station so I think it works. I think maybe the radio has to be set for CW-SSB and with the Q-multiplier turned on in order for that S-meter to register properly. I think I read that in the manual, but maybe that was something I read somewhere else about an S-meter on some other radio. Anyway I have not HEARD any real SSB voice or CW on this radio yet while having it set to those settings.

Well, that's most of what I have been having issues about. My studying for the tech license is not raising any questions for me yet.

I would appreciate any thoughts, suggestions, or feedback.
 
Janie,
This hobby can be done in several ways. It can be very inexpensive, and it can be very expensive. Just depends on which part of the hobby suits you, what you are willing to do, or pay to have done for you. Just how 'involved' you want to get, the capabilities you want to have. How 'frugal' you want to be (nice way of saying cheap).
The licensing is sort of that way too. It starts with the Technician class license and goes to the Extra class license. Each license grants a few more privileges and capabilities. Each also requires a bit more knowledge about certain aspects of the hobby. It seems a bit intimidating at first, but it honestly isn't that bad, just takes time and a little effort. None of it is impossible for almost anyone. There are exceptions to that but there are to everything, isn't there? (I can't knit worth a @#$, ain't real thrilled with cooking, and hate cutting grass. Big deal.)
This hobby isn't ever going to be the cheapest thing in the world. You can knit with two sticks you whittled from a tree limb. But it's much easier with a couple of knitting needles, isn't it? Same with radios. (Boy! That's a stretch! :))
You've probably already gotten a 'taste' of what's possible. Depending on the effort you are willing to put into it, none of it is impossible. If you find that you are willing to put out that effort, the 'limits' are only set by you. Aim high! Sounds 'hoaky', but it's how it works.
Before spending a lot of money, get the license. I certainly saves time and money in the long run, and gives you a legitimate base to work from. (If you don't care to talk to the people you hear, then forget the license, it isn't needed to just listen. Easier said than done, sometimes.)
Ready for one of those 'war stories'? I've helped test a lot of people. I've found that the ones who didn't pass the licensing tests only failed because they didn't put enough effort into it. That includes people from 8 to 80, age just isn't a factor. If you've got the "want to", you can certainly do it. 'Nuff of that.
Like they used to say to 'Mikey', try it you'll like it!
- 'Doc
 
You antenna challenges will be your biggest, but it will most likely become your most fun. coming up with ways to work around it, it is very doable. Verticals, Screwdrivers, buddi-poles, hidden wires and flag poles. There are lots of options.
 
Back to the the antenna issue - for ANY radio on HF bands. I have an old 1972 "SW radio projects" book that shows a very basic "antenna tuner" for 3 to 30MHz, which is simply a variable-tap inductor and variable capacitor that can be switched to be either in parallel or in series. The antenna connects to the top of the capacitor and the tap on the coil goes to ... if I remember correctly, the 2nd radio antenna jack. (the low end of the coil goes to the radio ground terminal.

Anyway, I recognize this as a basic "band-pass" filter, at least when the cap and ind are in parallel, but I think that it is still a band-pass filter when in series too. I have not thought that through enough to be sure. The book says one changes the tuner capacitance as one changes the frequency one is trying to listen to.

So I am wondering if the $40 - $60 "antenna tuners" on eBAY - like the MFJ 941 "versa tuner" are really anything much more than this.

Not exactly. A bandpass filter can be contructed to do impedence matching at a specific frequency, but an impedence matching system like an antenna tuner isn't necessarily a very effective bandpass filter. It can exhibit some filtering, but probably not enough to be extremely useful in a lot of cases. As you can tell, there are a lot of qualifiers in there :)
 
Thanks guys!
I appreciate your feedback and your encouragement!

Yes like any hobby this can be expensive.... or not. While I do like fancy new things, I also really enjoy fiddling around and trying things out. Had to design a lot of Physics labs when I was teaching and enjoyed trying new ways of doing things- which always involved measuring things. Over the years the equipment and data processing software got better and better, but we don't learn much if everything is done for us. Nor do we appreciate how much it is doing for us if we haven't done more of the work ourselves.

I am still working on the technician study materials. That's going well. If I schedule the exam for the first opportunity it would be the 2nd week in April.

I have been reading a lot on the web and watching eBAY prices and finding some other used equipment sites as well.

I read something that goes along with my line of thought. The people in that conversation said that many beginners find VHF far less interesting than HF and many of them never go for their general and drop out. I think they were suggesting that giving 28.3-28.5 MHz voice to technicians might have been intended to help remedy this. My own line of thought is that I KNOW I want a decent receiver for the SW and HF spectrum because I have enjoyed listening there in the past. Mostly international broadcasts. I remember the first time I listened to Radio Moscow - back in the 60s during the "cold war" - and then listened to the Voice of America and really saw for the first time how each side can propagandize the news.

Anyway, my first priority was to have a 2m radio I can use after getting my tech license, so I did a lot of watching and looking. At the same time I have also been steadily watching VHF transceivers and highly rated broadband HF receivers on eBAY. I know I want a receiver, but will only need a transceiver for HF if I continue on for my General license. That remains unknown, though it is my intention.

I found that a brand new Yaesu FT2800 at Ham Radio Outlet was going for less than used ones at eBAY. In one case the eBAY plus shipping was $50 more. (HRO charged no shipping). So I picked up that FT2800. It is meant to be installed in a car and run off a 13.8 V car battery. So it requires a power supply. I noticed that some less expensive HF transceivers also require similar Voltage and Amperage so I bought a Daiwa 330 power supply and found a new one of those for $20 less it costs at most sites.

Both of those arrived early this week and I made that 2m antenna I mentioned in a previous post in this thread:
2 METER ANTENNAS - CHEAP AND EASY!. I used coax from the radio to a pair of 19" tv antennas soldered to the coax, one to center and one to the mesh layer.

I strung this outside on my balcony and mounted it on a long 1/2" dowel rod. During the day the antenna hides under the awning of my porch swing. I seems to function okay there, but I don't have much of a way to compare it to anything yet. Under the cover of night, I can slide the dowel rod out to extend further out beyond the balcony railing.


I was glad to find I could "lock out" ONLY the PTT button on hand mike on this radio because a lot of the scanning controls are duplicated on buttons on the transmitter. To INITIATE any scanning REQUIRES using the hand microphone buttons. So I can use it without having to worry about accidentally pressing the PTT button.

I really like the clean audio of this 2800. The squelch is a little weak for my tastes though. There is a RF squelch too, but this early in my experimenting with the radio I don't want to cut off the weakest signals.

The first night I did tune in one of the weaker NOAA stations instead of a strong one, and moved the antenna around in various ways. I watched the signal strength display on the radio display as I moved it around, and listened as well. I found one direction in which there as a narrow "dead zone" - with nothing coming in. I later found the local police stations do not come in well when the antenna is pointed in that direction. In some directions it seemed that the antenna worked better when both of the tv antenna rods were in a horizontal plane. But that did not seem to be true for signals at other frequencies.

Last night I was thinking that the coax alone is around 5m long and might work as a long wire antenna for the old Lafayette on HF - as a 1/4 wave or 1/2 wave - using just the center line. (Even with the tv antenna soldered to the end of it, it's still around 5 or 6m. So I tried it on the Lafayette - mostly as a way to see if that would give me any more information about that antenna - even if not for the 144MHz FT2800.

I found that keeping my original long wire on one antenna terminal of the Lafayette, and the center wire of the "coax 2m antenna" to the other antenna terminal gave the best results. I tried it with just one at a time and then with both. With both, there was a definite boost to the signal to noise ratio immediately each time I added it. I scanned from 6MHz to 30MHz but did not spend a long time with it. The long wire did a little better by itself for HF than the "2m coax" - but we would expect that. The 2m by itself, worked pretty well, but not as good. But together, one to each antenna terminal was clearly the best. It's nice that these results do not contradict what I expected, and even nicer that the coax antenna added something to the HF reception.

So I have been having fun. Some of the radio books I have ordered have been arriving. Practical circuit ideas in several books by Doug Demaw (W1FB) and one by Ian Poole. One thing that has especially impressed me is how well these guys know the practical side of choosing components for various applications!!! All my training has been more "textbook-ish" without paying much attention to ferrite vs iron core inductors or ceramic versus tantulum and everything else. My education focused on tuning frequency equations, impedance calculations and those sorts of things. Useful now yes, but I am totally lacking in knowing these practical things about why one would NOT choose a particular TYPE of inductor or capacitor!

....... So... while I have not posted here for a while, I have been doing fine and enjoying myself a lot!

Thanks again for sharing your ideas and for giving me encouragement!
 
With a Technician license, you have access to small chunks of 80M, 40M and 15M - some prime territory on HF. The catch is, you have to use Morse code.

I started off as a Novice, back in the middle of the last century (literally!), and the Novice license allowed ONLY CW, on virtually the same little portions of 80/40/15 (plus AM on 2M). I worked all states and over a hundred countries just on 15 and 40 CW. Don't let anyone tell you that a Tech can't "talk" to people overseas. There's no code requirement for amateur licensing any more; the only thing that keeps folks off CW is themselves.
 

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