HF'S ON AM

[Sonar]

I've heard so many HF transceivers on a.m. including Yaesu 991, ft 450 and Icom 7300 to mention a few. Not impressed at all. The ones I've heard sounded low flat and tiny.
While having a qso with a local who operates a Cobra 2000 (d104) as his AM rig, the QSO turned to HF transceivers and how they usually sound poorly on a.m. He owns and operates a ts 570 DG on ssb. He decided to turn on the 570 DG heil (hm-10?) to see how it sounded on AM (which he never did before). All I can say is wow!! It was set at max output (40 watts AM?) and hit 70 watts with modulation. It sound incredible! He switched the compressor on then off and it sounded great in either position but nicer with it on. Nicely balanced with a slight emphasis on the lows (wonderfully bassy) but not over done. I was blown away. I wanted to know how it sounded on ssb so off we went. Unfortunately it sounded flat. Tiny with the fan from his power supply making an appearance between words which wasn't the case on AM. I'm sure all it needed was to a few adjustments to sound on ssb as like it sounded on AM. I've always enjoyed the audio of kenwoods on ssb compared to the other big two hf manufacturers but I never imagined how beautiful a stock 570 DG could sound on AM. I was so impressed with its wonderful AM sound that I'm going to purchase one. Just thought I'd share. Happy Thanksgiving.73

 

[hotrod]

imho i believe it SHOULD ,VE sounded better on am cause it uses more bandwith than ssb. i maybe wrong but jmo. fm uses even more bandwith yet so id think it might sound a hair better there.

 

[BJ radionut]

Any of the NEWer rigs with adjustable bandwidth and built in EQ's can sound descent on AM...but one must know how to set it up...most of those that use them on certain bands have no clue how to set them for SSB let alone Ancient Modulation
Just takes a little time and effort...
All the Best
Gary

 

[Sonar]

imho i believe it SHOULD ,VE sounded better on am cause it uses more bandwith than ssb. i maybe wrong but jmo. fm uses even more bandwith yet so id think it might sound a hair better there.

I always assumed that hf's would operate in AM or ssb with the same bandwidth in which their capable of.
It's the double ssb they use on AM as opposed to a traditional carrier modulated signal that causes a problem (I thought).
I know that with some time and research one can get their hf to sound nice on AM but I've read that most (no matter what) just can't obtain quality audio on AM.
It's inherent in the design.
I'm going to go with the ts 570 because 1. the price point 2. I've always wanted to own a Kenwood and lastly out of every hf I've heard on AM it not only sound like it was transmitting true Amplitude Modulation but did it better than any cb radio I've ever heard. It truly had a terrific punch. Loud and clear is an under statement. It was warm with a nice but not overly done punch (bass). IMO it was the type of audio that would make anyone proud to be transmitting. Lots of people spend so much time, money and effort on direct injection and outboard audio gear and get their cb radio's to transmit so wide when IMO the audio I heard from this ts 570dg and heil pr 10 actually sounded better. I say that because it sounded much more natural than all that possessed 10 - 20 kHz wide audio that's produced by many of those setups. Maybe it's because I'm listening to them on a standard cb radio receiver (madison).
I'm not bashing those who go that route because I've heard some incredible sounding audio from some of those setups but truthfully most sound over possessed. The only way I can think of exsplain it is that they sound mechanical. I wish I would've recorded and shared the QSO I had with my local while he was on his 570 DG.. I was and still am extremely impressed with the 570dg on AM. Obviously. I hope I don't sound like a nut. I'm just passionate about AM and never thought or heard an hf sound so nice on my favorite mode. Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[Blackcat630]

I occasionally run my ts 2000 on 11m am. I run the radio with a Kenwood mc 60 desk mic (mic amp off) no other outboard processing. I set the 2000 audio to the recommendation of the heil website. I do turn on the processor for am. All my local guys rave about how smooth and clear the audio sounds. Not to loud not to soft. I've never heard it myself so I don't know how it sounds to my ear. Never had a complaint only compliments. I also prefer the sound of kenwood compared to the others. Usually it sounds the most natural to me. Although I will say the new Icom 7300 sounds awesome on ssb with a stock mic. Don't know about am..never heard one yet. Good luck w a 570. I've never owned one but I understand they have a great receiver Just my .02

 

[Yeti Communications Ltd]

most hf ham radios (not 10m mono band radios) use one sideband+carrier and are limited to the bandwidth of the ssb filter on tx (unless it has a seperate am filter in the first I.F in the more expensive hf radios)
if it does not have a am filter the ssb filer is too narrow for decent am hence why they sound bassy (not alot of highs) plus the fact cbers are used to hearing am with both sidebands mixed with the carrier (in commenrical hf ssb/am radios the same system is used to lessen the need for a seperate wider am filter which adds unnessary expense)

if you are gonna buy a hf rig to use on am on cb band go for something that has a am filter in the first I.F (used on tx/rx) and run the thing on a 4:1 ratio (or use a scope to set it up correctly for 100% modulation)..trying to push more modulation out of a hf radio is just gonna get you the ALC kicking in hard...want cber over the top cover 40 channels audio stay on your cb and crank your cobra 29 with swing kit break break

am is dead move on let the data boys take the freq

no hams were harmed in this conversation

 

[Sonar]

most hf ham radios (not 10m mono band radios) use one sideband+carrier and are limited to the bandwidth of the ssb filter on tx (unless it has a seperate am filter in the first I.F in the more expensive hf radios)
if it does not have a am filter the ssb filer is too narrow for decent am hence why they sound bassy (not alot of highs) plus the fact cbers are used to hearing am with both sidebands mixed with the carrier (in commenrical hf ssb/am radios the same system is used to lessen the need for a seperate wider am filter which adds unnessary expense)

if you are gonna buy a hf rig to use on am on cb band go for something that has a am filter in the first I.F (used on tx/rx) and run the thing on a 4:1 ratio (or use a scope to set it up correctly for 100% modulation)..trying to push more modulation out of a hf radio is just gonna get you the ALC kicking in hard...want cber over the top cover 40 channels audio stay on your cb and crank your cobra 29 with swing kit break break

am is dead move on let the data boys take the freq

no hams were harmed in this conversation

I don't use a cobra. Never even owned one.

most hf ham radios (not 10m mono band radios) use one sideband+carrier and are limited to the bandwidth of the ssb filter on tx (unless it has a seperate am filter in the first I.F in the more expensive hf radios)
if it does not have a am filter the ssb filer is too narrow for decent am hence why they sound bassy (not alot of highs) plus the fact cbers are used to hearing am with both sidebands mixed with the carrier (in commenrical hf ssb/am radios the same system is used to lessen the need for a seperate wider am filter which adds unnessary expense)

if you are gonna buy a hf rig to use on am on cb band go for something that has a am filter in the first I.F (used on tx/rx) and run the thing on a 4:1 ratio (or use a scope to set it up correctly for 100% modulation)..trying to push more modulation out of a hf radio is just gonna get you the ALC kicking in hard...want cber over the top cover 40 channels audio stay on your cb and crank your cobra 29 with swing kit break break

am is dead move on let the data boys take the freq

no hams were harmed in this conversation

I don't use a cobra. I've never even owned one. I don't recall the first cb I used. It was transistorized and AM only. One of these two sonar fs 2340's have been my AM station since 1982. I use a madison for ssb. And it's audio limiter is intact as it came from factory. I rarely use it on AM. My goal is to not have to switch between two rigs. I'd like to own one that does the job both on AM and SSB. And do it well.
So there! Lol. Happy Thanksgiving. 73

 

[222DBFL]

The kenwood 480's don't sound bad on AM either and I have gotten pretty good reports on my Icom 746 on AM as well. Just how you set it up. But they truly aren't made for AM. Yes they can be made to sound good, but it takes some time and the proper settings to get them to sound decent. And also depends on other factors like stated above. Just my 2 pennies worth. Also my Kenwood TS140s does a decent job on AM. Keep the power ratio to 1:4, and set the mic gain and use a decent mic. You have to set them up differently then you would when you are on SSB. That is just what I have found. I am surely no pro at this stuff, but by using the radios I have and experimenting with different settings I have been able to get a decent sound on AM. If I am wanting to just use AM I will break out my cobra 29 or one of the other AM radios I have and use one of them. Can't have too many radios.

 

[Sonar]

The kenwood 480's don't sound bad on AM either and I have gotten pretty good reports on my Icom 746 on AM as well. Just how you set it up. But they truly aren't made for AM. Yes they can be made to sound good, but it takes some time and the proper settings to get them to sound decent. And also depends on other factors like stated above. Just my 2 pennies worth. Also my Kenwood TS140s does a decent job on AM. Keep the power ratio to 1:4, and set the mic gain and use a decent mic. You have to set them up differently then you would when you are on SSB. That is just what I have found. I am surely no pro at this stuff, but by using the radios I have and experimenting with different settings I have been able to get a decent sound on AM. If I am wanting to just use AM I will break out my cobra 29 or one of the other AM radios I have and use one of them. Can't have too many radios.

You've made excellent points. I'm hoping that I can get my 570 sounding as good on AM as the one I heard but if anything comes out of this it'll be that I'm finally going to own a Kenwood and I don't think I ever heard a bad sounding one one SSB.. Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[Blackcat630]

You've made excellent points. I'm hoping that I can get my 570 sounding as good on AM as the one I heard but if anything comes out of this it'll be that I'm finally going to own a Kenwood and I don't think I ever heard a bad sounding one one SSB.. Happy Thanksgiving.

I have heard a few bad sounding kenwoods. They usually just had settings all wrong or had it cranked up to high. The best kenwood I've ever heard (ssb) was the 950sdx. Have worked a few guys that run these and everyone I can remember sounded phenomenal.

 

[fourstringburn]

most hf ham radios (not 10m mono band radios) use one sideband+carrier

Really?

AM is also known as double side band because it uses both sidebands and a carrier otherwise it wouldn't be true AM.

Why would Real HF rigs be any different since AM started with HF rigs and where did you learn this from???

Answer both questions please!

 

[Yeti Communications Ltd]

Really?

AM is also known as double side band because it uses both sidebands and a carrier otherwise it wouldn't be true AM.

Why would Real HF rigs be any different since AM started with HF rigs and where did you learn this from???

Answer both questions please!

ft101 uses one sideband (usb) + carrier for am mode

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

Really?

AM is also known as double side band because it uses both sidebands and a carrier otherwise it wouldn't be true AM.

Why would Real HF rigs be any different since AM started with HF rigs and where did you learn this from???

Answer both questions please!

AM is not known as simply double sideband. It is ONLY if BOTH sidebands and a full carrier are used. Some older radios did indeed use a carrier and only one sideband, usually USB, for transmitting AM. Since both sidebands are mirror images of each other only one is needed as long as the carrier is present.

In some cases, it may be desirable to maintain some degree of compatibility with simple AM receivers, while still reducing the signal's bandwidth. This can be accomplished by transmitting single-sideband with a normal or slightly reduced carrier. This mode is called compatible (or full carrier) SSB or Amplitude Modulation Equivalent (AME). In typical AME systems, harmonic distortion can reach 25% and intermodulation distortion can be much higher than normal, but minimizing distortion in receivers with envelope detectors is generally considered less important than allowing them to produce intelligible audio.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singl...Full.2C_reduced.2C_and_suppressed_carrier_SSB

 

[fourstringburn]

AM is not known as simply double sideband. It is ONLY if BOTH sidebands and a full carrier are used. Some older radios did indeed use a carrier and only one sideband, usually USB, for transmitting AM. Since both sidebands are mirror images of each other only one is needed as long as the carrier is present.

In some cases, it may be desirable to maintain some degree of compatibility with simple AM receivers, while still reducing the signal's bandwidth. This can be accomplished by transmitting single-sideband with a normal or slightly reduced carrier. This mode is called compatible (or full carrier) SSB or Amplitude Modulation Equivalent (AME). In typical AME systems, harmonic distortion can reach 25% and intermodulation distortion can be much higher than normal, but minimizing distortion in receivers with envelope detectors is generally considered less important than allowing them to produce intelligible audio.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singl...Full.2C_reduced.2C_and_suppressed_carrier_SSB

That's the way I always heard and read it to be in both in Ham and CB communities.

You're most likely correct but I'm surprised you used Wikipedia for a source and Yeticom provided none.

I will do some research when I get the chance since I'm lacking the knowledge on this.

Thanks for your input.

 

[StrangeBrew]

I've also heard about the single sideband and carrier thing. To the best of my knowledge most radios that have optional AM filters available use this scheme with the SSB filter for AM, the optional filter usually opens it up to use both sidebands and give standard AM performance.