How much ground plane for a 102 whip?

[338_MtRushmore]

I am planning to build a ground plane base for a 102 whip to put on top of my camper. I was thinking maybe a 36" circle of plate with 8 36" wires every 45 degees? Should be plenty?

Yes, I would like an a99 and would love a moonraker 80 foot up, but I have enough problems with the owner here and would like to stay with the whip.

 

[sp5it]

4 1/4 wave length is enough for elevated radials.
1/8 is minimum.
Mike

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

I am planning to build a ground plane base for a 102 whip to put on top of my camper. I was thinking maybe a 36" circle of plate with 8 36" wires every 45 degees? Should be plenty?

Yes, I would like an a99 and would love a moonraker 80 foot up, but I have enough problems with the owner here and would like to stay with the whip.

Not really enough but it will work but not the best. What is the roof of the camper made of? Likely aluminum in which case you do not need to add anything. Just use the roof as the groundplane. Mount the antenna as close to the roof as you can and attach the shield of the coax to the roof sheathing. Far better than what you propose for radials.

 

[338_MtRushmore]

It is fiberglass with a rubber membrane roof. An inverted v would be a pain to attach. I guess I could just run coax to a vehicle, but I don't know how long I will have an extra vehicle here. Would a whip on a Suburban (hard mount, center of roof) perform better or worse than my ground plane proposal?

Or maybe I should just declare war and put up an a99? Then again, if I get kicked out I will have to get an apartment and I'd really be screwed.

 

[BJ radionut]

http://www.amateurradio.bz/10-11m_ground_plane_antenna.html

This may help you in the set-up of the antenna...they can be made to work very well, even ground mounted. Elevated, 4 radials is minimum, if ground mounted 8 to 30 radials is much better...now is a good time to place a ground radial field as growth is slow and they need only be couple inches down. then seed the area later and the new seed will grow up and cover your work...Then the driven element can be painted to further hide the antenna.
See the examples and go from there.
All the Best
Gary

 

[543_Dallas]

Mount it anyway you can and stretch out some radials tied off with rope. One will work, 2 will work better and 4 would be great.

Start with the radials around 9 feet and trim them evenly for lowest swr.

 

[Mudduckmobile]

It is fiberglass with a rubber membrane roof. An inverted v would be a pain to attach. I guess I could just run coax to a vehicle, but I don't know how long I will have an extra vehicle here. Would a whip on a Suburban (hard mount, center of roof) perform better or worse than my ground plane proposal?

Or maybe I should just declare war and put up an a99? Then again, if I get kicked out I will have to get an apartment and I'd really be screwed.

I like your Whip on the Suburban plain.
On my last rig 2009 ram crew cab. I ran a Breadlove 4in. Hard mount with a 102 s.s.whip, and also ran a serio 5000 "trucker". The serio 5000 was the easiest to tune and drive around with. Make sure you BOND EVERYTHING.
On ssb I could talk to most anything I could hear with Optima mk3, and ts dx500. and with the RCI2970n4 as well. The Yeasu ft450d is hands down the best with that rig. But now I am starting over, I got a new ram quad cab and am bonding now, and soon the put on a Breadlove 4in. mount with ball so I can lay down my antenna In the city car park.
That Suburban all bonded up will be great, just tune that antenna well. I had a hell of a time use your antenna anlzr. and get some mag. wire to make a coil. It's a pain but works real good. Mobile is a compromise antenna but you make it dam good just take your time. Here is a good link for some help.
KØBG.COM
Have fun!
one more quick bit.
I got some conduit and hose clamps and just for fun put a stud on the big end and put all 4 bits to gether and set it at 34.19ft. had to play a bit and ended up at 34.04in.
It will not take wind but I put up a full wave vertical that way. Just to piss off the H.O.A.

 

[338_MtRushmore]

I am going to have to go with the mobile for a base antenna, as nothing else makes sense.

 

[338_MtRushmore]

I like your Whip on the Suburban plain.
On my last rig 2009 ram crew cab. I ran a Breadlove 4in. Hard mount with a 102 s.s.whip, and also ran a serio 5000 "trucker". The serio 5000 was the easiest to tune and drive around with. Make sure you BOND EVERYTHING.
On ssb I could talk to most anything I could hear with Optima mk3, and ts dx500. and with the RCI2970n4 as well. The Yeasu ft450d is hands down the best with that rig. But now I am starting over, I got a new ram quad cab and am bonding now, and soon the put on a Breadlove 4in. mount with ball so I can lay down my antenna In the city car park.
That Suburban all bonded up will be great, just tune that antenna well. I had a hell of a time use your antenna anlzr. and get some mag. wire to make a coil. It's a pain but works real good. Mobile is a compromise antenna but you make it dam good just take your time. Here is a good link for some help.
KØBG.COM
Have fun!
one more quick bit.
I got some conduit and hose clamps and just for fun put a stud on the big end and put all 4 bits to gether and set it at 34.19ft. had to play a bit and ended up at 34.04in.
It will not take wind but I put up a full wave vertical that way. Just to piss off the H.O.A.

That was on the mobile? LOL, I have wondered what our hoa would say about a beam 30' up off the back of the truck. I don't know what the problem would be?

 

[Mudduckmobile]

That was on the mobile? LOL, I have wondered what our hoa would say about a beam 30' up off the back of the truck. I don't know what the problem would be?

I did put my Delta loop up on a32 ft. push up poll with a 10ft. pvc ext on top to mount the delta in the bed of my truck. H.O.A. was pissed but i only put it up when in use. lol.

 

[Riverman]

With my homemade ground plane made from three 4' Firestiks (one vertical and two radials slanted down at 45 degrees on a 15' mast) I was able to talk to a trucker 5 miles away and some guy in Oregon (I'm in Texas).

I took it down because everyone kept telling me how inefficient the design was.

Converted it to a horizontal dipole using two of the antennas and had success on DX but not local. Took it down for the same reason. And I got tired of being told when conditions are right you can work DX with a wet noodle.

So, 338, my advice would be to put up what you want to put up and see if it works. It won't be as good as an A99, but my guess is you'll have some success with your original plan. Have fun!

 

[338_MtRushmore]

With my homemade ground plane made from three 4' Firestiks (one vertical and two radials slanted down at 45 degrees on a 15' mast) I was able to talk to a trucker 5 miles away and some guy in Oregon (I'm in Texas).

I took it down because everyone kept telling me how inefficient the design was.

Converted it to a horizontal dipole using two of the antennas and had success on DX but not local. Took it down for the same reason. And I got tired of being told when conditions are right you can work DX with a wet noodle.

So, 338, my advice would be to put up what you want to put up and see if it works. It won't be as good as an A99, but my guess is you'll have some success with your original plan. Have fun!

You are absolutely correct. I bought an analyzer and bonded the hell out of my truck, and guess what happened? Nothing. I couldn't tell a difference, nor could anyone else. I wasn't any happier just because my antenna was an inch shorter. It is way too easy to get caught up in the best and lose sight of a measurable improvement. My analyzer was stolen and I probably wont buy another unless I start building antennas. I now believe bonding horizontal surfaces and tuning to a good vswr is more than adequate.

 

[Riverman]

You are absolutely correct. I bought an analyzer and bonded the hell out of my truck, and guess what happened? Nothing. I couldn't tell a difference, nor could anyone else. I wasn't any happier just because my antenna was an inch shorter. It is way too easy to get caught up in the best and lose sight of a measurable improvement. My analyzer was stolen and I probably wont buy another unless I start building antennas. I now believe bonding horizontal surfaces and tuning to a good vswr is more than adequate.

Let us know what kind of ground plane you put up with your 102" whip and how well it works!

 

[codeman]

I have good luck with a magnet mount Wilson 1000 on my Dodge Quad cab...I have talked about 60 miles on sideband several times with just a RM Italy 203 and a Uniden radio. Barefoot the radio and the Wilson would get out about 30-40 miles on a good day.
That set up works great for skip talk as well. I have made MANY dx contacts with that antenna, no bonding...just stuck the antenna on the center of the roof,checked swrs and started talking. I have talked from South Texas to all over this country when skip is good.
If it was me I would mount that 102" on that suburban, that roof should give you a great ground plane.

 

[tba02]

This perhaps -http://www.sirioantenna.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=197

How big is the roof area of the camper? I would still be inclined to elevate that 102 inch whip and use 4 ~9 ft wire attached to each corner of the camper.