i'm Confused with V5/8

[Robalo]

i'm confused, ive been buying different antennas and all have different instructions. i also need to upgrade to w08 with the connector the so239 any suggestions? The SO239 need to be solid and this is the main ploblen on this antenna

and take a look a the pictures of the p08p bracket, which one is correct way?:

new one:

old one:

this is W58

maco V5000

maco v 5/8 1200 watts black bushing

 

[W5LZ]

Okay, I give up. What's the difference you're worried about?
- 'Doc

 

[Master Chief]

In the two drawings, one bracket is installed with the flange going up, and the other going down. I've seen this and haven't had any problems tuning the antenna. It does change the elevation of the beginning of the loop and where the shorting bar comes into contact with the main radiator.

I prefer to have the bracket flange go down.

 

[Marconi]

Very good observation Robalo.

I have never noticed that before, but it would seem to me to make an obvious difference. I cannot explain this, but for me it would seem to make a unexpected potential for error if one follows instructions precisely. Maybe this is why some end up with one overall length and others are a bit longer or shorter. If it does have an effect then maybe this is why the doc's state that the overall length is not set in stone. Maybe the tuning, length, and tap point adjustments take care of the difference. Looks like very bad documentation to me.

Unlike MC, had I noticed that before I would have made mention of this fact many times in my discussions of this reported difficult antenna to install and tune.

Master Chief maybe correct, that it makes no difference. But I would like someone to explain why, because seems to me all of those relationships down in that area are very precise as to location, measurement, and position.

The doc's even mention specific points (tips of screws) to measure for the 1" gap between the coil tips as important. The difference noted by Robalo could be as much as 1" difference or more, depending on how the part is installed. This would seem to me to cause and rather dramatic affect on the overall length as well as the placement of the tap point for the wire on the coil.

I guess both doc's that Robalo shows are from Maco. I would ask them which is correct and why the difference. For me it would seem to be an important note for Maco to address and to explain in their instructions on assembly. Maybe this is why Maco also comments about making overall length adjustment at the bottom section of the radiator instead of at the top segment.

 

[W5LZ]

I can see where the direction that bracket connects to the antenna might make some difference, but I have a problem believing that it would make a big difference whichever way it goes. The connecting point to the vertical element doesn't seem to be but an inch or so different, which could be compensated for by the tap point on the ring. Each and every antenna wouldn't be exactly the same, but I would think that normal tuning would take care of the differences.
I do agree that the manufacturor ought'a get their 'stuff' straight. What was the printing date for the two sets of directions?
- 'Doc

PS - I'm assuming that there were two sets of directions, not just one. Difference in the drawings. Unless it's all the same set? They just goofed in the proof reading?

 

[Marconi]

Sure 'Doc, you are probably correct.

 

[Seminoles]

In the two drawings, one bracket is installed with the flange going up, and the other going down. I've seen this and haven't had any problems tuning the antenna. It does change the elevation of the beginning of the loop and where the shorting bar comes into contact with the main radiator.

I prefer to have the bracket flange go down.

Just a thought but it seems that having the brace point going down is just for better strength laws of leverage the point at the bend is where it makes first contact arch point and is most likely at the same spot the through bolt is now lower allowing the shaft to go lower into the support like holding a long fishing pole the further down you hold it in your hand the better control you have on it at least there keeping up with it and improving fixing any original design flaws not that it is flawed but everything can be improved on even me...

 

[C2]

FWIW, it makes no difference.

As a matter of fact, my maco, being very old, had at some point in its life lost that bracket. I had to rig my own withi materials that I had available. Those materials were too small and flimsy to accomodate a SO239 connector, so I just hose clamped the SO239 connector directly to the shaft, tuned it, and went to races. It works just fine. I have a graphical antenna analyzer with some nice plots to show for my work.

Some day, however, I will rebuild the entire section as it was originally designed, with beefier parts, like the V5000.

 

[Switch Kit]

In the two drawings, one bracket is installed with the flange going up, and the other going down. I've seen this and haven't had any problems tuning the antenna. It does change the elevation of the beginning of the loop and where the shorting bar comes into contact with the main radiator.

I prefer to have the bracket flange go down.

Just a thought but it seems that having the brace point going down is just for better strength laws of leverage the point at the bend is where it makes first contact arch point and is most likely at the same spot the through bolt is now lower allowing the shaft to go lower into the support like holding a long fishing pole the further down you hold it in your hand the better control you have on it at least there keeping up with it and improving fixing any original design flaws not that it is flawed but everything can be improved on even me...

I always just use good electrical tape or some good heavy duty tie raps on the coax just below the ground plane star , works for a very nice strain relief on the flange/239 and 259.

 

[Hindu51]

I ran into the same thing about three weeks ago. I picked
up Workman's W58, got home, opened it up and no instructions.
I looked up the Maco on thier web site and looked the same so
downloaded the instructions. Parts list was the same but my
flange was turned up (opposite the instructions) and it says
to mount the radial hub 1/2 inch below the bottom of the above
mentioned bracket. As it was that would put that hub up near
the SO239 and make it difficult to screw on the connector so I
drilled out the rivets on the SO239 and reversed it. Put it
together and it tuned up fine. Later on found instructions on
a site that sells Maco V58 and it showed the opposite. The one's
from Maco's site did have a revision number on them though so
I figure a change was made.

Jim

 

[Master Chief]

......it would seem to me to make an obvious difference. I cannot explain this, but for me it would seem to make a unexpected potential for error if one follows instructions precisely.

Nope, not a big difference at all.

Maybe this is why some end up with one overall length and others are a bit longer or shorter. If it does have an effect then maybe this is why the doc's state that the overall length is not set in stone. Maybe the tuning, length, and tap point adjustments take care of the difference. Looks like very bad documentation to me.

There is nothing wrong with the documentation. Many factors will change the length and tuning of this antenna, this is why it is tuneable!

Unlike MC, had I noticed that before I would have made mention of this fact many times in my discussions of this reported difficult antenna to install and tune.

This is a very simple antenna to build and tune. Installation is only as hard as the person makes it. I've never had any issues installing this antenna and whether the bracket goes up or down has little effect on the outcome.

Master Chief maybe correct, that it makes no difference. But I would like someone to explain why, because seems to me all of those relationships down in that area are very precise as to location, measurement, and position.

The only issue is where RO2P mounts on the main radiator. PO8P, the bracket in question, has a pre-drilled hole in it and it mounts to the base assembly via a 10-24 screw. The difference between the bracket being mounted up or down is only about 1".

The doc's even mention specific points (tips of screws) to measure for the 1" gap between the coil tips as important. The difference noted by Robalo could be as much as 1" difference or more, depending on how the part is installed. This would seem to me to cause and rather dramatic affect on the overall length as well as the placement of the tap point for the wire on the coil.

Once the PO8P bracket is installed and set up correctly, whether its up or down, you install the loop. Making sure you maintain the 1" gap, the RO2P "strap" will only have a difference of 1" where it meets the main radiator. Again, not a big deal.

IDEALLY, you would want the "strap" to feed the main radiator at the BOTTOM! But you can't do this as the bottom of the main element is buried in the insulator for support reasons. I bought a 12" piece of Teflon to elevate the main radiator out of the base tube but have yet to build it and test it.

Want to know what antenna correctly feeds the base of the main radiator? THE I-10K (and the Avanti Sigma 5/8). The Penetrator also feeds the main element at the base but surrounds the first 12" with the mounting bracket and ground plane. A flaw in my opinion.

I guess both doc's that Robalo shows are from Maco. I would ask them which is correct and why the difference. For me it would seem to be an important note for Maco to address and to explain in their instructions on assembly. Maybe this is why Maco also comments about making overall length adjustment at the bottom section of the radiator instead of at the top segment.

It isn't important. Could it make a difference, maybe, but probably un-measurable. The ONLY reason Maco says to adjust the main radiator at the bottom is because it is more easily accessible during the tuning process. I would MUCH rather have the full 6" overlap at this joint and therefore take the extra effort to lower the antenna back down and adjust the top section.

What people need to understand is that the "electrical length" of this "stepped" element is what is important. This length can be made up a number of ways. You could have a single piece of 14ga wire or a single piece of 1" aluminum tubing. The wire will be longer than the aluminum to make the same electrical length due to its smaller exposed cross section.

Most antenna element sections are cut in 6', 4' or 2' lengths as the raw material usually comes in 12' lengths and you don't want any waste. The wall thickness is ideally .058" in order to allow diameters in 1/8" OD increments able to telescope. Maco uses .047" material because it is cheaper. Avanti used .047" tubing only on the end elements that didn't have another stepped element inside. This kept costs down.

If I build an element with 6' of 1", 4' of 7/8", 4' of 3/4", 4' of 5/8, and 6' of 1/2", all with 6" of overlap, I'd have an element that is 264" long and it would have an electrical length of x. If I wanted to build another element of the same electrical length using only 4' material, it would have to be physically longer due to the reduced size of the exposed area.

What this means is that it does not matter what size material you use, or in the case of the V58, whether you adjust the top section or the bottom section, as long as you reach the desired ELECTRICAL LENGTH of the radiator.

The reason I want the full 6" of overlap at the base of the element is for MECHANICAL reasons! 6" at the bottom is better than 4" at the bottom, mechanically.

I also want to point out the EXPOSED LENGTH of an element. What started as a 12' piece of aluminum is now a 1/4" shorter due to the cutting blade used to make 2 cuts. What this means is that the first two elements may be 48" when cut against a stop, but the remainder of the tubing will only be 47-3/4".

When I build an antenna, I don't "measure 6" and slide the ends into the larger tubing." If you do this, you could loose as much as 1/8" per element step. 6 elements = 3/4" off! On a sigma IV that's over 1".

If the tubing is 47-3/4" long, I call it a 48" and with 6" of overlap I would have 42" EXPOSED. The overlap would only be 5-3/4", but I'm OK with that.

Ham antennas and the I-10K talk about EXPOSED LENGTHS. The Maco doesn't, but I do when I build them.

 

[Switch Kit]

I just had to laugh I remember back in 92 when I first attempted to assemble a Maco Alpha V-58 it was insane !! I was ready to kill somebody after hours of work !! Climbing up and down my damned roof , getting part of my hand stuck in the push up pole ,yelling and screaming to my wife at the time who couldn't really help me anyway while the skin between my thumb and index finger was stuck in between two sections of the push up pole I finally got it out but it wasn't until I had to slightly twist (God that hurt like hell) and pull before I got that part of my hand out . I had followed instructions to a tee and the match was still close to a 3.0 , as you would guess ,I would play with the ring and clip ,push the damed thing back up 30 ft or so only to find out the same damned thing everytime. I finally shorten the antenna , after about 6 more times up and down the roof and up and down with the pole , I finally got a 1.2 on 40 1.1 on 20 and 1.3 on 1 , that was good enough for me . Thank God came to mind ! I've done about 6 or 7 of the Alpha's ever since and all have pretty much given me the same readings one way or the other. After all I went through on the first one and using Antron 99s and Salute before them , I was very very pleased with the TX and RX on them there after , it's really the only antenna for me ever since. I will say the Salute was a good antenna ,but I always thought it was ugly and after the wind destroyed it for good ,I was done with those. I think it's pretty cool how guys can take the time and better assemble these antennas for hopefully longer uses , but I can say this much about the Alpha V-5/8s , they will surely work well right out of the box and after years of building a few of them , even those somewhat crazy instructions that come with them ,became clearer and clearer to me over the years. Peace

 

[357]

Not sure which exactly but I made the top element 218 inches I think, and set the coil for lowest swr then pulled to top element out of the base to acheive low swr.
just slide the radiator in and out to get low swr.