Marconi testing New Top One vs. Gain Master

[Marconi]

Here is the New Top One (NTO), a new version of the old AstroPlane. It is to be noted that my NTO is actual installed 4' feet below the top on my 33'8" mast, unlike the GM which is mounted on top of a similar P/U pole at 33'8". This places the GM about 14' feet above the 4' foot tall radiator on the NTO and that is a real disadvantage for this 12' tall antenna vs. 22.5' for the GM.

I think what you will see here will be remarkable and should show you that in testing antennas there is more to making a judgment that is close to correct than just using one or two nearby stations to do your testing, and for sure even if you go to the extent to test using the same mount, coax, and radio.

I sure wish both of these stations were guys listed in my group of stations on my previous test, so I could compare them a little, but let me hear why YOU think we might see such results. Is this just a fluke or could it possibly happen much of the time?

Why is the NTO showing a better signal in this particular test, where the station with the stronger signal and showing an obvious difference, compared to the other station, with less signal, showing the same Sunit signal strength for both antennas.

YouTube - Marconi testing his Gain Master vs. his New Top One

Here is my Signal Report. You'll note the two stations in the video are listed as add-on at the bottom of the report below.

View attachment New Top One vs. Gain Master.pdf

 

[HomerBB]

Interesting results. Wonder what happens with the NTO up as high as the other. The NTO seems to like closer stations better than the GM, or am I missing something?

Remind me of which town/suburb you are located in there in Houston.

 

[Marconi]

Interesting results. Wonder what happens with the NTO up as high as the other. The NTO seems to like closer stations better than the GM, or am I missing something?

Remind me of which town/suburb you are located in there in Houston.

Until I can find a 6'> pipe that will fit the Sirio metric tubing nice and snug, the NTO will have to remain as it was installed the other day. I took it down so I could install my Sigma4, maybe today if the wind dies down.

I haven't really analyzed my stuff Homer. I find it better if I wait a while and get my mind clear. Plus, I get tired of testing and then adding captions to this stuff. I barely have time to make a few notes.

I might agree with your observations. I have noticed that very often I see mobile traffic on 19 showing better signals on the AP than the GM and sometimes those differences are more dramatic than the Signal Reports show. This might also suggest the opposite is true for the GM with the stations further away, but I can only recall that sometimes I seem better able to hear at any distance a little better on both of my Top One's when they were mounted near my shack. The GM is out back closer to the power lines, and I think I've determined that old mount shows a little bit more noise.

At first I installed my GM on the new mount and I was claiming how much quieter it was than my Old Top One, an antenna that I've always attributed to being one of the quietest verticals I have.

I'm south of I-10 a stones throw east of Memorial Park.

 

[HomerBB]

I know what you mean by the apparent results not shown by the signals on the meter. I swapped out my Francis straight stick antenna for one of the copper air coils on the mobile the other day. Immediately the receive was enhanced audibly, but signals were not noticeably different.

I've seen the same on some of the base antennas. For instance, toward the northwest of me there are some stations who sometimes talk on ch 29 in the mid-evening. I can hear some of those stations better with the AP than the 5/8, which I attribute to the increased height of the AP over the 5/8. Ironically, the signals are not improved on the meter, and in a couple of the cases look to be lower.

I get confused by this phenomenon, but it makes me rethink my antennas - how well they are made, etc - I have work to do come Spring. 15° is too cold, not to mention the 8+ inches of snow on the ground, to go at it for now.

Thanks for the locale. Inside of the loop 610. Wow, there's certainly a lot of the city around you.

 

[Kamikaze]

How do you know the signal under test was not bouncing off something in the path like a water tower?

There might be space diversity effect going on there. Ever move up a few feet in your car to hear an FM station that went away?

 

[Marconi]

How do you know the signal under test was not bouncing off something in the path like a water tower?

There might be space diversity effect going on there. Ever move up a few feet in your car to hear an FM station that went away?

You're exactly right Kamikaze, but I have an arrangment with God. I don't interfere with his nature and he lets me demonstrate what I see, however or whatever the reasons.

Seriously though, that is why I check several contacts for the differences in signals, hopefully trying to help eliminate the very low and the very high...to produce an average that ends up somewhere in the middle. It is the guys that just report the best and most obvious differences in signals they see...that gives me cause to wonder. I believe what they tell us, but I realize radio signals can vary from moment sometimes and sometimes I can't even determine the differences. When I do note a difference, I hardly ever see the big differences I hear all the time.

 

[gamegetter]

i would think that the water tower argument would have more validity if the antenna/antennas were within 36 feet of the tower to actually make a difference on transmit and receive.

 

[gamegetter]

as for the fm, for the line of sight distances marco is working with i don't think it is going to make a difference.

 

[Marconi]

as for the fm, for the line of sight distances marco is working with i don't think it is going to make a difference.

I've might agree, but my experience tells me to at least consider that any thing tall and wide, whether conductive or not, can affect you direct line of site or other reflected wave signals. Since we can't see these signals, we can only speculate based on some understandings of how other things in nature that we can see...reflect and deflect, and sometimes it helps and sometimes it doesn't.

So, I can't be sure, but I might talk about what I imagine. Most of what I say is opinion.

 

[gamegetter]

attenuation

would you not consider attenuation of signal from fixed objects as a constant? they are there all the time and your antenas are fixed also and you have enough fixed stations out there that all can be considered constant except for the s unit signal which is varying. we'll see what your signal report sheet shows when you get to it.

 

[Marconi]

Image of the GM vs. NTO

I don't think I posted this picture of the GM vs. New Top One yet. Sorry for the poor angle with the tree in the way, but the NTO is back there and the top is about 14'+ lower than the top of the GM and the bottom is 4' feet below the bottom of the GM and that is some disadvantage for sure.

None-the-less, maybe you saw in the video of these two where one contact was showing a better signal on the NTO in spite of the disadvantage. This goes to show how taking just one signal report can be misleading with results. My paper Signal Report shows the GM with better signals among the regular group in my contacts list, by a .6 Sunit difference. Admittedly it's not much, but the GM showed a better signal.

I didn't have the Top One up very long because it was a borrowed antenna, but I have one ordered and when it arrives I'm thinking about putting it back up on the opposite mount out back and comparing it to whatever I have up at the time. I thought it was that good a performer and figured if I pushed it up maybe 4 - 9 feet higher it may show an improved response.

The Top One may be short with a 4' foot radiator, but that is a lot of metal in the sky to attract RF signals on and for sure compared to those other skinny radiators.




Here is the view from the other direction.

 

[Kamikaze]

What else is on that pole

 

[HomerBB]

i would think that the water tower argument would have more validity if the antenna/antennas were within 36 feet of the tower to actually make a difference on transmit and receive.

When I pass by these things I am within 100' of them. They are monstrously large, not you usual spindly legged water towers. The diameter of the legs are probably 50' - 60' across. I was just speculating because of the consistent effect this spot produces.

 

[Marconi]

What else is on that pole

The one behind the service pole is the GM and the one behind the tree is the New Top One.

 

[HomerBB]

Hopefully I won't say anything that kills the momentum of this thread. . .
I believe the height of your NTO will produce greater performance as you go up. Unfortunately for me, there seems to be a limit to what I can see given the landscape around me. Looking forward to it.