Marconi working his Gain Master again.

[Marconi]

Well guys, I recently installed my New Top One up, side by side, with my Old Top One that had a full length 1/4 wave radiator in the top. I compared signals and scan data for a few days and indications were similar to my earlier testing of the Old Top One that was factory stock vs. the full 1/4 wave version.

The full length radiator did/does show a slight bit better signal with my local contacts, but the New Top One is noticeably quieter. I have considered that my two mounts are different in one respect, and that is the back mount, which the OTO was mounted on, is typically a bit noisier than my mount outside my shack where the New Top One is mounted. So, maybe the noise issue is not an issue at all.

Well I took the OTO down and installed my Gain Master @ about 59' feet to the tip. Here it is up beside my New Top One @ about 44' feet to the tip.



I will post some signal reports and maybe a video soon, even though the antennas are not raised up to the full height yet, it has just been too windy lately.

 

[Kamikaze]

R U sure all this antenna work isn't an excuse for looking at a hot neighbor over the hedges?

 

[Marconi]

R U sure all this antenna work isn't an excuse for looking at a hot neighbor over the hedges?

At 73 kamikaze, my feet never leave the ground. I ain't lookin'! :

I have a trained monkey.

 

[Kamikaze]

At 73 kamikaze, my feet never leave the ground. I ain't lookin'! :

I have a trained monkey.

Well if you have access to old QSTs read The Spumoni Caper. It's about a bunch of field day antenna installers out in the woods near a lake being used by half naked chicks.

 

[Marconi]

Here is two days of checking some signals from my locals, before DX started with the GM at 59' feet to the tip vs. the New Top One at 44' feet to the tip.

View attachment New Top One vs. Gain Master 041211.pdf

 

[cbradiomagazine.com]

Did you add your s unit totals correctly?

 

[Marconi]

Did you add your s unit totals correctly?

I thought it was strange when I did the math, but I did not check it over. I just checked them again and they are correct.

a 7 is a 7, a 7- is a 6.5, and a 7+ is a 7.5. This takes care of signals that are not quite up to the mark above or below the 1/2 way mark, and I record as best I can only the best peaks that I can catch.

 

[Shockwave]

Interesting how the Top One would appear to be the stronger antenna in this test. At first one might think something must be wrong. It doesn't matter if you see the Top One as a 1/4 wave ground plane or a type of modified 1/2 wave center fed vertical, the best it could have is unity gain. Others may find flaws in the way the tests were done.

I think when you consider everything, Marconi's tests showed exactly what we can expect from higher gain omni-directional vertical antennas. More gain does not work exactly the way more power does. More gain means you take energy from one area and focus it another. Typically this means we take away from angles that are not aimed at the horizon to increase distant range there.

Think about the differences between stronger signals that are closer (S-8 or 9) compared to weaker more distant signals (S-2 or 3). Differences between the antenna heights of local test stations will benefit from the Top One because it's energy is not tightly focused on the horizon. It has a much broader pattern and covers a wider vertical beamwidth. Also, if the other test station is using a low gain broad pattern antenna, it is likely to capture more of the Top Ones broader local pattern until it fades away due to distance. This is why it can be stronger in some places but almost never produce more range in the distance.

 

[Marconi]

Interesting how the Top One would appear to be the stronger antenna in this test. At first one might think something must be wrong. It doesn't matter if you see the Top One as a 1/4 wave ground plane or a type of modified 1/2 wave vertical, the best it could have is unity gain. Others may find flaws in the way the tests were done.

I think when you consider everything, Marconi's tests showed exactly what we can expect from higher gain omni-directional vertical antennas. More gain does not work exactly the way more power does. More gain means you take energy from one area and focus it another. Typically this means we take away from angles that are not aimed at the horizon to increase distant range there.

Think about the differences between stronger signals that are closer (S-8 or 9) compared to weaker more distant signals (S-2 or 3). Differences between the antenna heights of local test stations will benefit from the Top One because it's energy is not tightly focused on the horizon. It has a much broader pattern and covers a wider vertical beamwidth. Also, if the other test station is using a low gain broad pattern antenna, it is likely to capture more of the Top Ones broader local pattern until it fades away due to distance. This is why it can be stronger in some places but almost never produce more range in the distance.

I might agree SW, but I also think maybe the brute broadside size of the AstroPlane designed antenna may well contribute to the idea you note above as well.

This situation doesn't happen all the time, but often I can copy signals or hear signals better on these AP's that show less signal on my radio. With that said, I also add that this would be hard to observe unless one of the stations has more than one antenna up and attached to a switch box for rapid switching. Since I'm just doing only RX signals here, then maybe this very big foot print for the AP design is what is making some of these responses we might not expect with a 1/2 wave radiator and such a small antenna.

When I'm able to get an antenna check at some distance, I often hear that the smaller antenna is falling behind in signal a bit, but the audio does not seem to suffer as one might expect at least I get those kinds of comments.

The New Top One is really an amazing little antenna that doesn't get very much attention, and I find it simple and virtually plug and play with no tuning required.

I also find that the size of the mounting mast seems to affect the resonance of these antennas. I have mounted my NTO with a 1" square tubing and resonance went a bit high. I did the same with a 1.25" mast which put the resonance at 27.205, and I used 12' feet of 1.75" aluminum tubing which sent the frequency down a bit, but they were each very close or within the CB band still.

 

[Marconi]

Here is todays Signal Report. View attachment GM vs NTO 041511.pdf Hopefully you can hear the copy/no copy notation and see the signals I saw and heard.

I posted some more videos with the GM vs. NTO for today early AM with some of my local buddies out to about 80 miles.

Click on the link to my YouTube Channel in my signature at the bottom of this screen. If you have any comments post here or post to the video itself.

 

[Marconi]

Ole' Grampa checking audio response GM vs. NTO

Here is my Signal Report for 04/16/11
View attachment GM vs, NTO 041611.pdf

I just posted a new video to YouTube that demonstrates the audio response differences I'm seeing some times using the New Top One. It should be available soon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gPY6FLZpEs

 

[mackmobile43]

I would say the answer to this issue is the floor noise and the amount of it picked up or not by the 2 antennas that over runs any vocal audio being received.

Thanks for the AM report.

 

[Marconi]

I would say the answer to this issue is the floor noise and the amount of it picked up or not by the 2 antennas that over runs any vocal audio being received.

Thanks for the AM report.

Mac, the video was made in SSB mode. The steady needle was the noise level at the time, and both AM mobiles in the background were probably showing a signal below the noise level. I think I was seeing about an Sunit less noise with the NTO, and you are right the noise and maybe the little gain increase on the GM was drowning out both their signals to be no copy and unintelligible. IMO, for some guys the NTO would really be of a benefit, but typically when the conditions are noisy, this copy no copy thing is not so evident.

BTW, do you think if you were testing one antenna at a time on the same setup...that you would ever be able to realize such a distinction as this video shows and what 399 observed when I was talking to him a couple of weeks ago while switching my antennas?

 

[mackmobile43]

Mac, the video was made in SSB mode. The steady needle was the noise level at the time, and both AM mobiles in the background were probably showing a signal below the noise level. I think I was seeing about an Sunit less noise with the NTO, and you are right the noise and maybe the little gain increase on the GM was drowning out both their signals to be no copy and unintelligible. IMO, for some guys the NTO would really be of a benefit, but typically when the conditions are noisy, this copy no copy thing is not so evident.

BTW, do you think if you were testing one antenna at a time on the same setup...that you would ever be able to realize such a distinction as this video shows and what 399 observed when I was talking to him a couple of weeks ago while switching my antennas?

Sorry for the mix up but I don't understand why anyone would try to make a test in a cross mode situation and try to distinguish anything about either antenna? but the only distinction I detected was a very (very) slight rise in the noise level between the 2 antennas.

 

[Marconi]

Sorry for the mix up but I don't understand why anyone would try to make a test in a cross mode situation and try to distinguish anything about either antenna? but the only distinction I detected was a very (very) slight rise in the noise level between the 2 antennas.

Mack this was not a test, it was a response that I noted while waiting for some of the local guys to start talking. I did say earlier that it was AM, but I can't say that was really the case, and maybe I misspoke. I didn't hear any carrier, so they could have just as easily been using ssb and been over around the Austin, Tx area about 100 miles away.

I think maybe you missed the point I was trying to relate in drawing the viewers attention toward the audio differences in this video. Maybe I should have been more clear that the difference was slight, but I could copy some of what these two were saying on the NTO, and could not copy a word on the GainMaster.

A while back, I did another video that showed the very opposite responses using my GainMaster vs. another antenna up at the time, and maybe it was my Starduster in that case.

You might try looking at it again and concentrating on the audio portion more and try to ignore any problems with the technical approach I used or didn't use in the video. If you can't hear the distinctions I noted, then so be it.

Maybe if you look back at my Signal Report for today, you will note a comment I made for a station about 80 miles away above Livingston, Tx where I was able to make copy with my NTO, while I got a no copy on the GainMaster...even while the GM showed about 2 Sunits better signal. It might be on the another video it did as well. Do don't believe the video, do you belive my words?