MFJ-1026 Noise Cancelling Antenna

[Mr_Gnome]

I have a lot of noise coming from a transformer. It's so bad at times I will get up to a 9 s-unit buzz. There is no way to even listen to an AM broadcast station. And yes, I've called out PG&E three times...but there is always no problem. I've even taken a portable AM/FM radio, walked up to the transformer with the PG&E guy showing him where the noise was coming from, but the same story, no problem.

I ordered the "MFJ-1026 1.5-30 MHz Deluxe Noise Canceling antenna" from HRO to see if it would help. It's not an antenna to transmit on, but to pick up the RFI and null it out before getting into your radio. It's not supposed to act like one of those "Noise Choppers" in-line things that are no more than turning down the RF gain. You can see it and read the manual about it at
http://www.mfjenterprises.com/products.php?prodid=MFJ-1026.

Anyone ever tried one, or something like it, or knew anyone that did? What were the results? Does it sound like it might work?

Thanks,
Mr Gnome

 

[Master Chief]

Its a phasing box! Cool! This would be FUN to play with! You could even get a bearing on the local LID who is jamming the band!

If it works, it is basically phasing two antennas together. By changing the phasing between the two antennas, you can actually steer the NULLS.

This is what the broadcast guys do with their multi-tower arrays; they steer the NULLS to protect other co-channel stations. Some think broadcast phasing is all all about gain......NOPE! I won't say EVERY broadcast station is about the NULLS, but the majority of them are.

You can read more about phased arrays here:
http://www.qsl.net/km5kg/array.htm

 

[Mr_Gnome]

Master Chief,

So I guess from what you had to say about it, it should work? I HOPE so, that transformer is workin my station hard today at a good 7 s-units.

I looked at the site, but I'll try reading it when I have more time. Looks like I won't understand 99.9% of it.

The MFJ should be here Monday, so I'll post about it.

Thanks,
Mr Gnome

 

[Hamin' X]

If you are a member of the ARRL, they will help with a letter to PG&E that will give them a little "kick in the pants". Also, don't be bashful about mentioning the FCC and Part 15. Below is an ongoing case that the ARRL is involved with:

==>FCC PRESSES TWO UTILITIES TO RESOLVE POWER LINE NOISE COMPLAINTS

The FCC has asked utilities in Oklahoma and Illinois to try harder to
resolve longstanding power line noise complaints from Amateur Radio
licensees. Special Counsel in the FCC Spectrum Enforcement Division Riley
Hollingsworth recently contacted Oklahoma Gas & Electric (OG&E) Company and
Exelon Corporation (ComEd) in Chicago to follow up on the unrelated cases.

"In your response on behalf of Oklahoma Gas and Electric, dated January 30,
2006, you indicated that you were responding to [the radio amateur's]
complaints," Hollingsworth wrote Oklahoma Gas and Electric's Senior Attorney
Patrick D. Shore. "However, [the complainant] states that the power line
hardware noise continues."

Hollingsworth customarily does not identify RFI complainants in public
correspondence, but the Oklahoma radio amateur involved -- ARRL Member Hal
Dietz, W5GHZ, of Bethany -- agreed to let the League make his name public.
Dietz has sought the ARRL's assistance in resolving the problem. The League
has been working with the FCC for several years to address power line noise
complaints from Amateur Radio licensees.

Dietz says the power line noise he's experiencing on occasion has approached
20 dB over S9 on some bands, but it's typically between S5 to S9. "I
experience line noise interference on frequencies as high as 444.100 MHz --
a local repeater that I monitor -- and on all TV channels through 14," he
reports. "The interference is not present on all bands at all times, but it
is present on one or more bands all of the time, except when it's raining."

An OG&E has representative visited Dietz but was unable to pin down the
interference source. "I have also offered to go with them when they are
trying to locate the interference, but they have declined my help," Dietz
added.

On December 8, Hollingsworth wrote John W. Rowe, chairman and CEO of Exelon
Corporation, the parent company of utility ComEd.

"We have reviewed your letter dated July 10, 2006, in which you state that
you have not been able to locate the source of radio interference because
the noise as reported by [the complainant] is intermittent. [The
complainant] disputes that claim, however, stating that the noise is
constant and that the only time that it is not present is during a heavy
rain."

The Amateur Radio licensee experiencing the interference has told the ARRL
that the noise from ComEd's equipment is nearly always present and 60 dB
over S9 on 160 meters, wet weather excepted. Adding to the mix, the ham
recounted last fall, is new noise from a neighbor's Part 15 electronic
device. ARRL Electromagnetic Compatibility Engineer Mike Gruber, W1MG, says
the complainant for several months has been reporting persistent noise from
160 to 6 meters from ComEd's system and can even hear it on his car's
broadcast radio.

Hollingsworth advised both utilities to review the radio amateurs'
complaints and advise his office regarding steps being taken to locate and
remediate the RFI.

Rich

 

[AudioShockwav]

Mr Gnome, are there any other services that are running on the same pole, Cable ect? Might be some of there Equpt.
Also, do you have your Ham Lic? If the Power co will not solve the problem, you might try a phone call to the closest FCC field office, many times they will send out a letter that will get the the ball rolling a little better. Even if you are not a Lic holder, they are not allowed to cause interfrence to AM Broadcast Stations. Dem is da rules.

73
Jeff

 

[Mr_Gnome]

Hamin' X,

No, I'm not an ARRL member.

On qrz.com I've been taking all of the 12 practice tests for technician class. To my surprise, I've passed each one of them. Some by just one question, but. Other than I've thought about getting the lic. anyway, I kinda figured if I had it, I'd have a lot more leverage over PG&E.

My noise sounds just like what you posted on all freqs from 24MHz to 29MHz. When it rains most of the time things get quiet. A little moisture in the air, like we have now, increases it. I don't know how to prove where the RFI is coming from...but it would seem that my "high tech portable transistor radio RFI sniffing device" walking up to the source and noise INCREASING would be enough.

His answer let me get my radio and try it. You got it, no noise on his radio like it had special filtering installed. I told him I've NEVER been able to listen to any AM broadcast station on ANY radio I have here now, or that I've owned in the past! I took him to 4 other radios through out the house, same noise. Well, it could be something from one of your neighbors. All of them have moved since I've lived here the past 12 years. It could be something in your house. I've shut down all the breakers and ran the CB radio off a car battery and the portable AM/FM runs off it's own batteries.

Anyway, maybe the MFJ noise antenna coming Monday will work.

Thanks,
Mr Gnome

 

[fatdude1]

Master Chief,

So I guess from what you had to say about it, it should work? I HOPE so, that transformer is workin my station hard today at a good 7 s-units.

I looked at the site, but I'll try reading it when I have more time. Looks like I won't understand 99.9% of it.

The MFJ should be here Monday, so I'll post about it.

Thanks,
Mr Gnome

ok if they wont fix it by asking nice you will have to make them fix it the hard way do you have a 22cal rifle 1 round into it and they will have to come out and fix it.. have had to do that a few time's d*mn electric co's

 

[Jay in the Mojave]

Hello Mr Gnome:

I have the same problem here in the Mojave Desert. Every once and a while I get a 20 over S9 noise that will last for a few minutes, then go then come back at different S-Meter levels, quit erratic. And of course just when I want to hear a station that is weak or in the mud, how wonderful!

When interference or RFI (Radio Frequency Interference) happens three things have to exist.
1 A Generator of RF Energy
2 A Path from the generator to the effected receiver
3 A Receiver

When RFI interference happens it’s always best to go the source the generator and fix the problem. But ya can't always do the in a practical way. So the path or receiver is next in line to try to eliminate the interference noise.

A few of the local hams and I have discussed this mater a few times, and there is thought that nothing can be done about it since there is a Major Super High Voltage Switching and Transfer Station just a mile down the road. But we have the found that this big high voltage station isn't noisy as we first thought. So we have found several pole power transformers to be real intermittently noisy.

But in the mean time a we have tried noise cancellers, DSP (Digital Signal Processor, in newer ham radios), beam antennas pointing other directions, ect. And even used a Heil "Clearspeech" DSP type external speaker. That does help some, but its 200 dollars. So if ya want to play ya gotta pay.

One old time trouble shooting method is to hit the power pole with a sledge hammer while monitoring the noise say in your mobile. If the noise changes with the sledge hammer hit you may have found the offending transformer.

What I have found is that some times I can almost eliminate all the noise and some times I can only reduced the noise. So it depends on what is generating the noise.

I will suggest that the noise canceller use an external antenna that is some what close to the noisy transformer. If possible. The Phase adjustment will adjust the antennas noise being picked up in time with the received noise and will hopefully be adjusted out of time or phase (phase a fancy name for time) canceling out most of the noise. Or thats how its suppose to work.

The ARRL has an excellent book out on RFI problems. And its well worth the price. Its at:
http://www.arrl.org/catalog/6834/

Please let us know how the MFJ Nose Canceller works out. Too many guys find a fix for something and do not report back their findings

Jay in the Mojave

I have a lot of noise coming from a transformer. It's so bad at times I will get up to a 9 s-unit buzz. There is no way to even listen to an AM broadcast station. And yes, I've called out PG&E three times...but there is always no problem. I've even taken a portable AM/FM radio, walked up to the transformer with the PG&E guy showing him where the noise was coming from, but the same story, no problem.

I ordered the "MFJ-1026 1.5-30 MHz Deluxe Noise Canceling antenna" from HRO to see if it would help. It's not an antenna to transmit on, but to pick up the RFI and null it out before getting into your radio. It's not supposed to act like one of those "Noise Choppers" in-line things that are no more than turning down the RF gain. You can see it and read the manual about it at
http://www.mfjenterprises.com/products.php?prodid=MFJ-1026.

Anyone ever tried one, or something like it, or knew anyone that did? What were the results? Does it sound like it might work?

Thanks,
Mr Gnome

 

[Mr_Gnome]

AudioShockwav,

No, I don't have a ham lic., but I've been taking the 12 tests at, I think its, qrz.com and have passed them all. I also have the info on where to take the tests and will probably do it in the near future. I was talking to some hams last night and they agree that just giving a call sign and the FCC rules will help 100%.

There are cable TV and phone lines on the same pole. The cable TV has been upgraded since we've lived here for computer. I've lived here around 12 years and had the same RFI all of that time.

Thanks,
Mr Gnome

 

[Mr_Gnome]

Jay in the Mojave,

I have the DSP Clear Speech speaker that I got a few years ago that was used for a weak for $100. I didn't like the speaker, so I made a Plexiglas box, put the board in there and velcroed it to my radio. Why? Because I was using it on my run and it was just too much to carry/hookup 2 speakers and all of the other crap. And yes, it is one of the BEST pieces of radio equipment I have! Still ruff with the noise, but makes it so I can at least use the radio.

I was talking to some hams last night and one was in the military doing radio. He said the MFJ should work because it's along the same lines as what they use. (Theirs probably cost 5000 times more for the same thing.) He said he's had his eye on it for some time now and please email him and let him know how it works.

The MFJ may work just off the built in antenna because the AM/FM portable radio would pick up the noise all around the house. If it doesn't, I guess I can just get some small coax and run it over at the source and hook up a Francis antenna I have laying around. (You doing antennas, that should work, shouldn't it?) Probably better to run another antenna to get right UNDER the source!

I'll have it tomorrow, so it's a sure thing, I'll post how it all works out after I play with it! I've had my eye on it for a good 5 years...if it works I'll be HAPPY, but I'll KICK myself for not getting it sooner!!!

Thanks,
Mr Gnome

 

[Mr_Gnome]

The MFJ came today and I played with it every way I could.

The internal telscoping antenna RX'ed 1 s-unit. Not enough for it to work. I tried hooking up a Francis in the same room and it RX'ed a little less. I'd say for it to work, I would have to hook up another antenna right next to the RFI source. It says it needs to RX the signal and the RFI on both antennas with the noise antenna picking up more of the RFI to work...so I'd say I'd have to go with at least a Antron.

I have a feeling it would work with another noise antenna, but I'm not sure I want to go through the extra work and money just to see if it works.

Mr Gnome

 

[W5LZ]

Mr Gnome,
It's been a long time since I was familiar with that noise cancelling thingy. Can't remember if it had a seperate connection for an antenna or not. But, just extending the antenna on it can do as well as using a different antenna (and lots cheaper). Connect a wire to the attached antenna, run it out of a window and throw it over the roof. Works as well as any 'dedicated' antenna ('A-99', whatever).
Had the same type noise here at one time, shortly after 'they' replaced some lines. What it amounts to is an intermittant contact between a power line and the insulator hardware (dirt, etc.). When it rains that intermittant contact is then a good one so no noise or less noise. Age and weather usually quieten the whole mess to some extent. The other side of that coin is that weather and age can also make it worse, after a certain point. Jay's 'old timer' method of finding the culpret does work. Wack the pole with a good sized hammer! If it stops for a minute, you've found the 'right' pole. Or, at least one of them. (Don't use a single edged axe!! You wouldn't believe the problems that can cause, "He's cutting down the pole!". Don't ask!)
Your local or state utilities commission is another good place to complain to. Unfortunately, you get about as much satisfaction, but then, 'they' have more paper work to do so at least you make it harder for 'them'.
Good luck...
- 'Doc

 

[Mr_Gnome]

- 'Doc,

But I has to asks about the axe!!! LOL Probably would be more don't ask here with the pole just on the other side of the fence in my neighbor's yard. That's the one problem trying it here. To get to it I would have to go into their yard and over all of their plant life. On my side I have a large koi pond filter that's in the way that I can't stand on.

I just saw in the MFJ book HRO sent with the order about a MFJ $150 RFI finding antenna. It's supposed to pick out down to the wire, etc. where the RFI is coming from. Sounds nice, but a little bit much for a 1 time use.

How can one go about proving where the RFI is coming from? Remember, I tried using an AM radio right in front of PG&E and that wasn't enough.

The MFJ does have a place on the back to run coax to another antenna...the noise antenna. Sounds good on the wire, but it's supposed to be the same as the antenna, either vertical or horizontal. I'll just run it right up the pole.

Thanks,
Mr Gnome

 

[Jay in the Mojave]

Hello Mr Grome:

Ok glad to hear you got the MFJ noise canceller unit. I have noticed in my experiences and seeing others fighting the noise problems that you need a strong input of the noise to the noise canceling unit.

I agree with Doc there, add wire to the antenna and throw it on the roof, cheap and easy way to try it out. Good call Doc!

The A99 antenna if used will need to be as close as ya can get, I would think. Could be a good try if you have an A99 lying around. Might try it temporarily at first.

I have a old Bendix Marine Radio Direction Finder, that has the loop directional antenna on top of the radio that rotates showing the two directions that noise may be coming from. But because the noise is rich with low frequency energy sometimes it real hard to determine the direction as the strong amount of noise rf energy is everywhere.

As the frequency in the noise goes up, the energy is reduced to where a direction finding antenna on say 2 meters (144 to 148 Mhz) will very easily be able to locate the offending noise source. There are a bunch of 2 meter hand help DF type antennas out there. I even think HRO carries one.

I am guilty as many others are, getting off my rear end and driving around with the marine DF Radio, and listing to my 2 meter radio in my truck, with a sledge hammer in the back.

A loop antenna connected to a small batter powered short wave radio may do the trick. You would need to walk down the row of telephone poles and note down which ones are noisy, ect.

Again let us know how it all turns out.

Jay in the Mojave

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

Oh boy do I remember dealing with this type of issue. Sometimes a listener wouild call the radio station and complain that they could not pick us up over the noise.After hearing them describe what sounded like power line RFI we would head out with a good portable AM/FM radio and often take along an airband RX as well. We would use the airband because it is VHF and also AM instead of the usual VHF/FM.This resulted in less interference to the interference. The most important tool was a 10 lb. sledge hammer.The trick was to listen as you whacked the pole.If the noise stopped or changed immediately you had the right pole. If there wa a slight delay then you had to go one way or the other to find the right one. The vibrations traveled down the wires to the adjacent poles and took a bit of time to get there and cause an effect.The power company generally takes a dim view of people going around whacking their poles BTW. We even had police car stop once and ask,politely I may add, just what we were doing.We showed him and he said,"Well I'll be damned! Can you guys come out my way and do that. I have a hard time with intermittant noise at home too." Both of those problems were solved in a matter of days.BTW you can mark the pole with a bit of paint or better yet look for a metal tag affixed to the pole.It is an ID number the power co uses;at least they do that up here.