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Modulation VS Carrier

IDIeselman

Active Member
Oct 20, 2010
260
38
38
53
Lake Michigan
Alright I give, I have a Doug built Competition Chrome 29 RFX75, On low dead key (2 to 122 watts) At approx 25 miles I am heard loud and clear but with no meter movement..0 pounds. Now, With my new to me Sparky built Magnum S9-175 I am heard at about the same level (Judged by ear) but the recievers meter reads 5-7 pounds and a touch cleaner. I understand the S9 is putting out more watts (About 80 more) And at this level should not be detectable. What is the difference and why is there a higher reading with the Magnum?

Another question if I may? While on SSB with the Magnum I can tune in clearly the A.M. signal my fellow radio heads are talking on, A.M. CH 12, Would they be able to understand me if I tryed to talk to them on SSB tuned to the A.M. frequency? I would just try it but everyone thinks I know more than I do and the words "Something is wrong with your radio would cripple me"

Thanks
Tim
 

the magnum most likely has a much higher dead key than the 29/rfx75 radio , if so that explains the higher meter reading on the received end .

the cleaner modulation is most likely due to the magnum not being run at such a high key to swing ratio .

am can be understood when in ssb mode and on the same channel . it doesnt work the other way around .

"everyone thinks I know more than I do and the words "Something is wrong with your radio would cripple me" '

LMBFAO !!!!!!!
 
I'm not sure of the answer to your first question. (Are you saying the 29 is generating a 2 watt carrier, and hits 122 watts on modulation peaks? I'd give anything to see what that looks like on a scope.)

But for your second question, no, your friends with AM receivers would not be able to understand you if you were to try talking to them on SSB. You would sound all muffled to them. An AM signal is basically a combination of a carrier and two sidebands, which is why you can hear AM signals when your radio is in SSB mode: you're listening to one of the sidebands. When you're tuned to ch. 12, you're still on the same frequency no matter what mode you're in (AM, FM or USB/LSB): the difference is just the form of modulation. It turns out that with AM, you're actually transmitting the same audio information twice, once in each sideband (the second sideband is just a mirror image of the first). SSB was developed as a more efficient alternative: the carrier and one sideband from AM are suppressed, leaving just a single sideband signal. (AM was developed first though, because it was the easiest modulation technique to implement.)

Unfortunately, CB radios tend to be notoriously bad when it comes to frequency stability. Sometimes they drift a lot. Sometimes the factory calibration is just off. And sometimes unlocked clarifiers get bumped accidentally. You don't notice it with AM or FM, but listening around with my Kenwood TS-850 on SSB, I very often hear CB stations off frequency by as much as several hundred Hz, or even one or two kHz. This makes multi-way SSB conversations a bit of a challenge: getting everybody on the same frequency is like herding cats.

Anyway, listening on SSB is actually a good way to tell when you're right on frequency with someone. Try the following:

1) Pick a given station transmitting on AM
2) Set your radio to LSB and adjust the clarifier until their voice sounds natural (i.e. not high pitched or low pitched)
3) Now switch to USB and check that it sounds the same as it did in LSB
4) Now switch to AM and check that it sounds the same as both LSB and SSB

Once you get the clarifier set so that the other person's voice sounds the same on all 3 modes, you should be right on the same frequency as they are, or at least really close (within a few Hz). With general coverage HF rigs, this trick is often used in conjunction with WWV for master oscillator calibration. (WWV transmits _exactly_ on 5, 10, 15, 20 and 25Mhz, which makes it a handy reference for those of us who can't afford a high stability frequency standard.)

You may have a little trouble doing this if your radio is prone to drifting a lot. I'm not sure how good the Magnum is in this regard. Also, once you get one station tuned in, any other stations you hear will probably sound like they're a little off. Again, that's to be expected with CBs. Even ham rigs aren't immune to this, but at least with some ham rigs you can get a high stability oscillator add-on, which can help a lot. That's usually only an option for more expensive ratios though. I doubt they'll ever have such a thing for typical CB rigs, but I wish export radio manufacturers would start offering them as accessories. (I'd take one over an echo/reverb circuit any day. :) )

Note that there is a case where your AM buddies might be able to hear you on SSB, and that's if you transmit while someone else on AM is keyed up. Anybody else who hears your SSB signal and the AM carrier at about the same strength will hear both mixed together, and will be able to understand you. This works best if you tune into the AM signal closely, as described above. I've done this a couple times to get through people jamming channels with dead keys.

-Bill
 
If you want somebody to give you a signal report from a transmitter with such a large dead-key to PEP ratio such as 2w to 122w, then you need to give them some continuous audio to allow their S-meter to react. Otherwise when you talk their s-meter may not be able to swing fast enough to the large signal swing.
When you have such a low dead key, some far stations may not be able to tell when you key-up and un-key, they can only hear your voice. And inbetween your syllables they will hear the static on the channel.
 
Ouch, I wouldn't run it any lower than 25 watts.

When you do the RFX-75 mod to a Cobra 29/25 a 25 watt carrier would probably over-heat the radio pretty fast. Meters will vary but most of those Cobra 29's modded this way can dead key 2-10 watts and swing 90-110 honest watts. All depends on how they set it up.


As far as your S meter question Booty Monster hit it right on, the Magnum radio might have say a 20-30 watt carrier.
 

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