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eddie,
im not dragging you anywhere, i want the truth of why i see what i see,

common mode radiation does not require coaxial cable, the currents exist in many places we don't want them, on poorly designed circuit boards, on 2 wire lines that are not balanced or have asymetry in the source placement ect,

i think i found what i was looking for with regards my question about method of moments and how it handles the two currents but i can't copy/paste it,

http://tinyurl.com/k55auvl

unlike the transmission-line equations numerical analysis of maxwells equations (MOM ) gives the complete solution to currents without presupposing only the existence of TEM mode,

so until i learn otherwise im fairly confident that MOM will show radiation from a transmission-line that is part of an antenna structure,
this seems to fit the radiation from the short leg of a j-pole seen in eznec & described by cebik as i noted earlier,

the issue could be no more than that of close spaced wires at accute angles as henry told us and is mentioned from multiple other sources,
im pretty sure if it was as simple as throwing some wires around a monopole cebik would not have told me it would be very difficult to get accurate results using eznec,

software using nec4 may give better results, especially if you include correct tube diameters and taper schedule, barkley says relative diameters are important to loss by radiation in the open sleeve antenna,

i don't know how nec4 handles flared radials and segment alignment, when you add the hoop i see things getting even more complicated,

have a look at the 5 wire cage monopole,
http://www.antennex.com/w4rnl/col0807/amod114.html

and TC2M terminated coaxial cage monopole,
http://www.tc2m.info/TC2M HF Vertical G8JNJ.pdf

see how they fit into your idea of what is coaxial and what will radiate,

a commonality of these antennas & the open sleeve articles that we don't have in the elevated vector is a groundplane and im not sure how that figures into the equation yet though i note that the open sleeve can be used in yagis which don't have a groundplane.

<blockquote data-quote="bob85" data-source="post: 499430" data-attributes="member: 18">eddie,im not dragging you anywhere, i want the truth of why i see what i see,common mode radiation does not require coaxial cable, the currents exist in many places we don&#039;t want them, on poorly designed circuit boards, on 2 wire lines that are not balanced or have asymetry in the source placement ect,i think i found what i was looking for with regards my question about method of moments and how it handles the two currents but i can&#039;t copy/paste it,<a href="http://tinyurl.com/k55auvl" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/k55auvl</a>unlike the transmission-line equations numerical analysis of maxwells equations (MOM )&nbsp; gives the complete solution to currents without presupposing only the existence of TEM mode,so until i learn otherwise im fairly confident that MOM will show radiation from a transmission-line that is part of an antenna structure,this seems to fit the radiation from the short leg of a j-pole seen in eznec &amp; described by cebik as i noted earlier,the issue could be no more than that of close spaced wires at accute angles as henry told us and is mentioned from multiple other sources,im pretty sure if it was as simple as throwing some wires around a monopole cebik would not have told me it would be very difficult to get accurate results using eznec,software using nec4 may give better results, especially if you include correct tube diameters and taper schedule,&nbsp; barkley says relative diameters are important to loss by radiation in the open sleeve antenna,i don&#039;t know how nec4 handles flared radials and segment alignment, when you add the hoop i see things getting even more complicated,have a look at the 5 wire cage monopole,<a href="http://www.antennex.com/w4rnl/col0807/amod114.html" target="_blank">http://www.antennex.com/w4rnl/col0807/amod114.html</a>and TC2M terminated coaxial cage monopole,<a href="http://www.tc2m.info/TC2M%20HF%20Vertical%20G8JNJ.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.tc2m.info/TC2M HF Vertical G8JNJ.pdf</a>see how they fit into your idea of what is coaxial and what will radiate,a commonality of these antennas &amp; the open sleeve articles that we don&#039;t have in the elevated vector is a groundplane and im not sure how that figures into the equation yet though i note that the open sleeve can be used in yagis which don&#039;t have a groundplane.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="bob85, post: 499430, member: 18"] eddie, im not dragging you anywhere, i want the truth of why i see what i see, common mode radiation does not require coaxial cable, the currents exist in many places we don't want them, on poorly designed circuit boards, on 2 wire lines that are not balanced or have asymetry in the source placement ect, i think i found what i was looking for with regards my question about method of moments and how it handles the two currents but i can't copy/paste it, [B][url]http://tinyurl.com/k55auvl[/url][/B] unlike the transmission-line equations numerical analysis of maxwells equations (MOM ) gives the complete solution to currents without presupposing only the existence of TEM mode, so until i learn otherwise im fairly confident that MOM will show radiation from a transmission-line that is part of an antenna structure, this seems to fit the radiation from the short leg of a j-pole seen in eznec & described by cebik as i noted earlier, the issue could be no more than that of close spaced wires at accute angles as henry told us and is mentioned from multiple other sources, im pretty sure if it was as simple as throwing some wires around a monopole cebik would not have told me it would be very difficult to get accurate results using eznec, software using nec4 may give better results, especially if you include correct tube diameters and taper schedule, barkley says relative diameters are important to loss by radiation in the open sleeve antenna, i don't know how nec4 handles flared radials and segment alignment, when you add the hoop i see things getting even more complicated, have a look at the 5 wire cage monopole, [url]http://www.antennex.com/w4rnl/col0807/amod114.html[/url] and TC2M terminated coaxial cage monopole, [url]http://www.tc2m.info/TC2M%20HF%20Vertical%20G8JNJ.pdf[/url] see how they fit into your idea of what is coaxial and what will radiate, a commonality of these antennas & the open sleeve articles that we don't have in the elevated vector is a groundplane and im not sure how that figures into the equation yet though i note that the open sleeve can be used in yagis which don't have a groundplane. [/QUOTE]

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