Ok so I have a basic understanding of quarter wave ground plane antennas, and up untill now the ones I have used had 4 horizontal wire radials so naturally only the whip radiated, but I now I own a sirio top one, with slanted radials, so my question is this, the top one is fed where the radials start so im thinking only that top section from the feed point radiates the signal, and the ground plane doesn't,? the reason I want to know is because my antenna is very low, if I am right that would mean I would only need the top section to clear the roof ? the antenna is in the garden surrounded by houses so do I only need the section from the feedpoint up to clear the roof ? or is there some radiation off the basket groundplane ? Im not sure what the takeoff angle is, but it works better than my halfwave, I assume its because im in a dip.
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Sirio Top one,starduster, radiates from whip ?
- Thread starter rizz
- Start date
which one do u have??? the sirio starduster and top one are completely 2 different antennas.
im not the smartest with antenna radation ,but with the starduster with 4 slanted radials
i think it would radiate at the bottom of the whip cause the pl259 screws in just below that
TOPONE = this one has no radials and a gamma match where the pl259 screws into.
im not sure about this one. the old ones i think were top loaded these new ones
i dont know.
with any antenna , it should clear all buildings for best performance. hope this helps
im not the smartest with antenna radation ,but with the starduster with 4 slanted radials
i think it would radiate at the bottom of the whip cause the pl259 screws in just below that
TOPONE = this one has no radials and a gamma match where the pl259 screws into.
im not sure about this one. the old ones i think were top loaded these new ones
i dont know.
with any antenna , it should clear all buildings for best performance. hope this helps
it could be top loaded . and your 1/2 wave is most likely baseloaded which would explain
why you see this. is this local talking or dx or both
rizz IMO the radials, whether they radiate or not, need to be as far above and away from all extraneous obstructions as the situation permits.
The fact that there can be some cancellation in the radial area, and thus little to no radiation, basically applies only to far field results.
If what you seem to be thinking were happening...then the elements in question would likely not be necessary at all. This is not the way cancellation works. This is a distinction, and the whole antenna needs to be in the clear of all unnecessary objects...if maximum RX/TX is expected as a result.
Even so this will not prevent you from working your antenna inside of your house if you wish.
The same it true of the New Top One with a gamma match, but maybe even more so...since the bottom of the antenna is a hoop which really increases voltage. My New Top One seems to work a little better than my A99 also, but IMO they are both 1/2 wave radiators.
The fact that there can be some cancellation in the radial area, and thus little to no radiation, basically applies only to far field results.
If what you seem to be thinking were happening...then the elements in question would likely not be necessary at all. This is not the way cancellation works. This is a distinction, and the whole antenna needs to be in the clear of all unnecessary objects...if maximum RX/TX is expected as a result.
Even so this will not prevent you from working your antenna inside of your house if you wish.
The same it true of the New Top One with a gamma match, but maybe even more so...since the bottom of the antenna is a hoop which really increases voltage. My New Top One seems to work a little better than my A99 also, but IMO they are both 1/2 wave radiators.
Horizontal radials have always radiated. However, they are designed in such a way that the radiation from any given radial cancels the radiation from the radial on the opposite side. This has the effect of near perfect cancellation from the elevated radial system. Marconi is correct, the cancellation effect really doesn't come into play until the far field.
That changes when you begin to angle those same radials downward. Because they are no longer pointing in exact opposite directions the cancellation is no longer near complete. As you angle those same radials more and more they act less and less like horizontal radials and more and more like the bottom leg of a vertical dipole.
Some people see angled radials as being no different than horizontal radials, and others see angled radials as being the bottom half of a vertical dipole. They are both right to an extent, and that extent depends on the angle of the radials in question.
The DB
That changes when you begin to angle those same radials downward. Because they are no longer pointing in exact opposite directions the cancellation is no longer near complete. As you angle those same radials more and more they act less and less like horizontal radials and more and more like the bottom leg of a vertical dipole.
Some people see angled radials as being no different than horizontal radials, and others see angled radials as being the bottom half of a vertical dipole. They are both right to an extent, and that extent depends on the angle of the radials in question.
The DB
Radials 'cancel' each other? No, sorry. First you have to have an understanding of how 'fields' affect each other and how they 'combine'. It's not a simple 'cancellation' thingy, the 'addition' of each field to the other is NOT simple at all and can't be made that way.
One 'side' of an antenna 'works' against the other in a very definite way. That 'way' isn't found by arithmetic, it found by 'math', a more complicated' form of arithmetic, sort of. It isn't a simple 2 dimension type thingy, it's a 3 dimension things. If you can't speak the 'language' it just doesn't make sense, sorry. There are some 'general' ways of going about it but that 'general' means there are always exception to the 'rule'.
Have fun with that learning a new 'language', it ain't easy, or simple. I had to go thorough that learning process, and to understand what's happening you will too.
You will have SOOO much fun.. yeah, right.
- 'Doc
One 'side' of an antenna 'works' against the other in a very definite way. That 'way' isn't found by arithmetic, it found by 'math', a more complicated' form of arithmetic, sort of. It isn't a simple 2 dimension type thingy, it's a 3 dimension things. If you can't speak the 'language' it just doesn't make sense, sorry. There are some 'general' ways of going about it but that 'general' means there are always exception to the 'rule'.
Have fun with that learning a new 'language', it ain't easy, or simple. I had to go thorough that learning process, and to understand what's happening you will too.
You will have SOOO much fun.. yeah, right.
- 'Doc
Hey doc, you really want to have this discussion?
First off, how did you read "radials cancel each other" into what I said? Wow. I never said nor implied any such thing. I very clearly (or so I thought) used the words "cancellation effect", which is nothing like what you seem to think I said. I was simply referring to the effects of the electromagnetic waves created by opposing radials in the far field have on a receiving antenna...
I am curious as to why you brought up math and arithmetic. You don't need either to have a good idea on how traveling waves function, I see it all in the surface of a pond/lake...
And when it comes to understanding I understand just fine.
The DB
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It would have to offer an advantage over a dipole wouldn't it?
http://www.copper.com/discus4/messages/29/114269.html?1338943211
http://www.copper.com/discus4/messages/29/114269.html?1338943211
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Hmmmmm? Well,that's not the only place I've checked. I was gauging their experiences and paying attention to where and how high they had theirs mounted. Kinda like Sirio said,"Hey,let's take a Vector and turn it upside down and put a capacitance hat on it!"
CB 27 MHz Base Antenna, SIRIO TOP-ONE