your right , but like I said before ,the more I think about it ,I more then likely answered my own question from the get go. With the way I have read the do's and not's around here for the last year or so , this forum tends to lean more towards the scientific facts and why the other ways or a waste time according to theroy, I can deal with that to a degree , really don't have much choice around here not to , so I suppose in the long and the short of it , controveresy is what it is. some folks like Ameritron and some folks like X-Force and Dave Made (whoever made it) In scientific theroy or not ,folks just like what they like weather it goes against Einstiens Theroy of relativity or not. Reminds me of a guy who went to A.A. one time , he would go back and forth from time to time over the months and years and finally he realized that A.A. had really screwed up his drinking )-: it really wasn't so much a bad thing as it was more so a good thing in the end , I suppose he started to see things about himself he really hadn't realized over the years.........good ole conscience can be a real kick in the a$$ from time to time. I guess you could say ,he really just didn't know what he didn't know .......he only thought he did.