TRIED THE MIDFI THING. NOT WORTH IT. BUT?

[Sonar]

About 2 years ago I purchased a Behringer 802, Shure SM 58, and interface (from audio designs, Penn) I also purchased all the appropriate cables.
I used those three devices on my Uniden Madison, and wasn't happy with the results. I got reports that said it sounded better than the standard Silver Eagle I was using. But it wasn't an outstanding change, and after a couple of weeks of fooling around with High, mid, and low knobs I decided the space that the Barringer, the interface and the wires just wasn't worth keeping in line. Not to mention the studio microphone that I just couldn't get used to. I do believe I can actually use the un Amplified d104 I am currently using with the sonar along with the interface as opposed to the sm58. I have the Behringer 802, sm58, and the interface sitting in a box in the closet.
I was thinking of trying that equipment on the sonar FS 2340. All I would need to do is change out the five pin Uniden receptacle on the interface to a 1/4 inch phone plug.
I won't be able to do the 5 Pin Uniden plug to a 1/4 inch phone myself. Does anybody think it's worth trying that equipment on the sonar? I myself am assuming I'll probably get the same results I got with the Madison. But since the sonar is a different type of transmitter being that it's tube modulated and such has got me thinking if it would be worth giving it a go. If I could change out the five pin Uniden receptacle that's in the interface myself it would be a no-brainer. I would do it in a second. I would have to give it to a local to do and I'm assuming it won't cost much. Is it worth it? Should I try that equipment on the sonar FS 2340 or should I assume I'm going to get the same mediocre results I got on the Madison? 73

 

[dave457]

There's more to it than just plug and play as your doing

 

[Sonar]

There's more to it than just plug and play as your doing

I'm going to translate your reply to, don't bother! Thanks 73

 

[dave457]

That's not what I said, but so be it....

 

[Sonar]

That's not what I said, but so be it....

I hate to keep assuming and guessing, but you're being sort of ambiguous. If you are going to suggest a 20 kilohertz wide banded transceiver that's going to need the use of a scope and a meter that will show proper positive, and negative modulation peaks I'm not really ready for anything like that. My knowledge is very limited and Beyond keying up my microphone this project I thought of doing was only brought up because I have the equipment already, and a chimpanzee could probably hook it up and use it..
Supposedly there are people out there using the same three pieces of equipment I mentioned and are supposedly getting great audo reports. I got good reports with it that wasn't the issue it was just that it wasn't anything special. The testimonials for the interface did not jive with my personal experience. The big boy type of equipment and the time it takes to dial it in and keep everything running properly is far beyond my knowledge or ability. If there is another way to use the equipment that I already own (802, sm58, interface) then I would absolutely appreciate your input.

 

[Sonar]

That's not what I said, but so be it....

Dave. I wasn't being sarcastic and I hope I didn't come off that way. If that's the way you perceive it I apologize. I truly am interested in what you have to say. I hope that you will reconsider and post your advice, and knowledge. I just thought I might be getting set up 4 A lesson on how to wide band or direct inject a CB radio. I thought maybe you were on that particular track. If there is a certain way to hook up the three pieces of equipment I have or possibly make a small modification to the transceiver (fs2340) that would allow these three pieces of equipment to work well, then please share. You'll have to keep in mind that I am disabled and the dexterity in my hands isn't that well on top of my lack of knowledge. I do have a very good technician that I send my equipment to, and if there's something that you know about getting these three pieces of equipment to work and work well I hope that you're willing to share the information. Once again if I came off as a dick head I apologize. I honestly felt that you were being a little Mysterioso. I don't mean that in a bad way I just was trying to figure out what you meant in your first reply with your statement "there's more to it than just plug in play.

 

[StrangeBrew]

Does this interface send the audio in through the mic jack? if so the filtering in the radios mic circuit will be a bottleneck that will limit any potential gains. Now I'm not really up on Sonar radios but older AM only rigs seem to have "looser" audio filtering than a relatively more modern SSB radio, I would think that there is some potential for the Sonar to sound better than the Uniden but the only way to know is to try.

Now if this interface is some type of direct inject deal then this whole conversation is above my pay grade so you can feel free to ignore me.

That being said I don't believe relying on on air reports is the best way to set up hi/mid fi stuff, if I was going to do what you're planning I would probably get a cheap SDR for monitoring/recording purposes.

 

[Sonar]

Does this interface send the audio in through the mic jack? if so the filtering in the radios mic circuit will be a bottleneck that will limit any potential gains. Now I'm not really up on Sonar radios but older AM only rigs seem to have "looser" audio filtering than a relatively more modern SSB radio, I would think that there is some potential for the Sonar to sound better than the Uniden but the only way to know is to try.

Now if this interface is some type of direct inject deal then this whole conversation is above my pay grade so you can feel free to ignore me.

That being said I don't believe relying on on air reports is the best way to set up hi/mid fi stuff, if I was going to do what you're planning I would probably get a cheap SDR for monitoring/recording purposes.

The interface is just a box that will allow one to use a mixer/eq, studio mic/traditional mic, andnd a keying device in line with a CB..
This is the exact device I purchased. I think it will show you exactly what it does. Any ideas after looking at the picture would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[sp5it]

Radio is your bottleneck. You can't go better than that.
Mike

 

[StrangeBrew]

Yup, radio is the bottleneck. That being said the Sonar may be less of a bottleneck than the Uniden was, since you already have the gear there's nothing to lose by trying it out.

 

[Sonar]

I'm not in need of the money although I'm fairly sure I could sell the Beringer 802, sm58, and the interface to a local who wants to give this a try. I have nothing to lose except the small cost of replacing the 5 pin Uniden input I ordered the interface be built with, so that it would work with the Madison. Converting it to a 1/4" phone jack that would allow it to work with the Sonar shouldn't cost much. I have a few item to send to my tech, I'll add the interface in there.
I don't recall what the interface, Behringer and sm58 cost me but it was a fairly of substantial amount considering it turned out to be a wash Imo. I do recall having a local listen to the Madison while I adjusted the three knobs (hi, med, lo) on the 802, and and his opinion there was a noticeable difference. It just wasn't enough for me to leave all that stuff in line. I got bored of it quickly. If somebody wants to give the Hi-Fi CB thing a try I definitely would suggest doing your homework and going all out. Some people might call this setup snake oil, and they probably wouldn't be too far off. I might as well give it a shot. I'm not expecting too much and I guess that's the best way to approach this hook up. That's the way I looked at it when I purchased these three pieces of equipment to up to the Madison. I wasn't all that disappointed when it didn't make me sound like an AM radio broadcast station. No disappointments here. We'll see what happens. I will definitely Let you guys know how it went and will try to get a local to add a video clip on YouTube with the sonar as it is, and then with the interface, 802 and sm58. If I can get someone to do that I will post the results on this site I appreciate that you guys responded with your honest opinions. 73

 

[338_MtRushmore]

I saw an episode of ham nation where Bob showed the effect of a mixer on a narrow banded rig vs wide banded. On the narrow radio the treble adjustment was too high to be effective, the bass was too low, and the mid was at the wrong frequency.

I agree that it is worth playing with since you already have the toys. Just remember to keep your expectations reasonable.

 

[LeapFrog]

Yes, you will not be happy simply plugging your setup directly into the factory pre-amp/audio chain, it is an intentional bottle neck, for communications grade audio.

I just learned a term yesterday "Tone Stack" and how it relates to vintage audio amplifiers, this is "the area" (loosely speaking) that needs modification in your rigs, so they can pass "hearty bass" or "super highs".

If you take what you already have and "direct inject it" to the Uniden (by-pass the bottle neck) you could get some wide-audio just using the processing on your external gear, you may have to run it through a "pre-amp/buffer" (or just use the Behringer) and this is for AM, for SSB you'd have to read up on e-ssb/voodoo or whatever they call it and swap a filter; (how wide you want I can't say) honestly I've never played w/ ssb and external processing so I have no advice to offer on that.

 

[StrangeBrew]

See if your tech can add the phone jack in parallel with the 5 pin jack allowing either to be used, maintaining the ability to use the 5 pin jack will go a long way toward maintaining resale value should you decide to sell it down the road.

 

[Sonar]

I saw an episode of ham nation where Bob showed the effect of a mixer on a narrow banded rig vs wide banded. On the narrow radio the treble adjustment was too high to be effective, the bass was too low, and the mid was at the wrong frequency.

I agree that it is worth playing with since you already have the toys. Just remember to keep your expectations reasonable.

I assume you're talking about Bob heil. I think I saw the same exact clip. That is an excellent clip. He broke it down so that people like myself (Layman) can actually understand what he was speaking about. I would suggest anyone thinking about studio microphones, wide banding, and outboard audio gear watch that video (several times)
I have 2 FS 2340's, both were restored by the same person. The same guy who I send anything that needs attention to.
He did an excellent job of recapping, aligning, and anything else that one would need in order to get one of these old tube type radios working. They both work really well. since I own two of them i wouldn't mind direct injecting one of them. I am going to hook up the interface, 802 and sm58 to the sonar only because I already have these items, and they're just sitting in a box in the corner of the closet. I have gotten great reports on the Madison since Loosecannon did the fet mod on my silver eagle. I honestly think the Madison sounds better with the set modified Silver Eagle then it did with the EQ/mixer combination. Even if it sounded better with the equalizer and the other two pieces of equipment it wasn't enough to warrant keeping it hooked up. It's amazing what A modification such as the fet mod can do for one's audio. I recently listened to a station using a 756 icom and one of those $80 mixers sold by that guy somewhere in the Ukraine, or Poland. Ukw6 something or another. And it sounded incredible. that little device and no modifications to the 756 had that transceiver sounding truly incredible on SSB. I can't recall that other very well-known company that builds those noise Gates and equalizers specifically for HF use, but the price difference between that and the one from Ukrainia(?) is huge. Back to the subject at hand. I wouldn't mind direct injecting one of these sonars. As I mentioned both are in excellent working order and might be a good candidate for that type of modification. I will speak to the technician that does the work on my equipment, and see if he'll do it. It's not a question of whether he can do it or not. He absolutely can do it, but there's some things that he doesn't mess with, and this might be one of them. I'm not a hundred percent sure. Before I do that I am going to go ahead and send him the interface. I'll have him switch out the 5 pin to a 1/4 inch phone plug. He knows the sonar radio is very well and will know exactly how to wire the interface so that it will plug into the sonar as opposed to the Madison. Now that I think about it he will actually have to change the mic cord in which the interface uses to plug directly into the radio, and the (interfaces) mic's 5 pin input to a 1/4 inch. I will let you guys know how it worked out. Thanks again for taking the time to reply. 73