Tuner question

[Se7en]

What exactly does this mean in English. ?

Tuning accuracy: VSWR 1.5:1 or less Insertion loss: Less than 1.0 dB(after tuning).

How come when you have a 24' 28mhz base antenna and it tunes 20m great tx is okay. 17m sucks 12m tunes great. 6M it tunes but can't be heard even on across town. Not even ssb.

Sent from Outerspace, on the DarkSide of X.

 

[W5LZ]

"Tuning accuracy: VSWR 1.5:1 or less Insertion loss: Less than 1.0 dB(after tuning)."
Accuracy?
What 'accuracy' are they talking about? the only accuracy I can think of is in the metering, or maybe the ability of the one doing the tuning. Where else would there be any 'accuracy'?
Insertion loss?
Okay, but a 'loss' as compared to what? To a 'no tuner required' situation? I would think that removing it would 'solve' a 1 dB insertion loss. If it means the 'by-pass' circuitry, then a 1 dB loss isn't good at all.
I'm afraid is sounds like typical advertising. Some one goes through a description and picks the "sounds good" statements to use out of context?

Why does that 24 foot antenna work in some places and not others? The reason is in the 'tuning' and how the thing radiates. 'Tuning' is NOT about just having a low SWR. A dummy load has a very nice SWR but doesn't radiate very well/much. There's no 'magic' length for an antenna that will work well on any frequency. It doesn't matter if that antenna consists of a wadded up ball of wire you found some where, or if it's a high dollar antenna purchased from some manufacturer. It might work very well on one band and maybe that band's harmonics, but it won't work as "well" on some bands. How do you define "works well"? All antennas are frequency related, which translates to lengths that work well for a particular frequency/band. One 'work around' for that is by loading the antenna to reduce it's length. ANY loading is only for convenience, it won't be as good as a "full sized" antenna. That means that if you don't have the room for a "full sized" antenna, whatever you use just isn't going to be as 'good' as one. Getting the thing 'close' does make a difference though. sometimes, that 'close' just isn't going to be 'close enough.
Terrible way of trying to explain something, ain't it?
- 'Doc

 

[hookedon6]

What exactly does this mean in English. ?

it tunes 20m great tx is okay. 17m sucks 12m tunes great. 6M it tunes but can't be heard even on across town. Not even ssb.

Sent from Outerspace, on the DarkSide of X.

when your tuner is used, SWR indications can be adjusted to near 1:1 on most bands, even using coax as your lead in. That is because you are only measuring the SWR between tuner and radio. That will keep your modern solid state radio happy seeing about 50 ohms, so it will produce full power without folding back power to protect your finals. However, when using coax on the non resonant frequencies, most of that power is not radiated, since it is simply wasted heating up your coax.

 

[Se7en]

when your tuner is used, SWR indications can be adjusted to near 1:1 on most bands, even using coax as your lead in. That is because you are only measuring the SWR between tuner and radio. That will keep your modern solid state radio happy seeing about 50 ohms, so it will produce full power without folding back power to protect your finals. However, when using coax on the non resonant frequencies, most of that power is not radiated, since it is simply wasted heating up your coax.

why even use a tuner if all it does then is make 50ohm.... i mean trying to tune 6m is pointless and as for 20m using a tuner with a 10m stick local talk is pointless....but i did hear that that is normal to try to talk across town with a tuner on an antenna not resonet on the tx freq people close by wont hear you?

 

[Se7en]

"Tuning accuracy: VSWR 1.5:1 or less Insertion loss: Less than 1.0 dB(after tuning)."
Accuracy?
What 'accuracy' are they talking about? the only accuracy I can think of is in the metering, or maybe the ability of the one doing the tuning. Where else would there be any 'accuracy'?
Insertion loss?
Okay, but a 'loss' as compared to what? To a 'no tuner required' situation? I would think that removing it would 'solve' a 1 dB insertion loss. If it means the 'by-pass' circuitry, then a 1 dB loss isn't good at all.
I'm afraid is sounds like typical advertising. Some one goes through a description and picks the "sounds good" statements to use out of context?

Why does that 24 foot antenna work in some places and not others? The reason is in the 'tuning' and how the thing radiates. 'Tuning' is NOT about just having a low SWR. A dummy load has a very nice SWR but doesn't radiate very well/much. There's no 'magic' length for an antenna that will work well on any frequency. It doesn't matter if that antenna consists of a wadded up ball of wire you found some where, or if it's a high dollar antenna purchased from some manufacturer. It might work very well on one band and maybe that band's harmonics, but it won't work as "well" on some bands. How do you define "works well"? All antennas are frequency related, which translates to lengths that work well for a particular frequency/band. One 'work around' for that is by loading the antenna to reduce it's length. ANY loading is only for convenience, it won't be as good as a "full sized" antenna. That means that if you don't have the room for a "full sized" antenna, whatever you use just isn't going to be as 'good' as one. Getting the thing 'close' does make a difference though. sometimes, that 'close' just isn't going to be 'close enough.
Terrible way of trying to explain something, ain't it?
- 'Doc

..."works well" as in clean clear signal(?)sp.
makes sense. best way i guess is if im going to do 40m,20m,12m,10m,6m i better just buy seperate base antennas and mount them all over...use the tuner inline to keep the match :w00t:

 

[BJ radionut]

Morse: Not knowing your situation as far as space...
Here's a few antennas to think about...
Look up All Band Doublet....(Best Option)
How about a 1/4 GP for 20m (thats a 1/2 on 10m)...
A 40m dipole will work very well on 15m

I am not going to start WWIII and give my thoughts on using the Miracle A99 antenna or Imax as a multi-Band Antenna...

The EDZ or Double Zepp....will kick a$$ and take names over trying to make one of those work on any band except where it was made for....but under some band conditions the Doublet/Zepp/EDZ will be Better!

I am a little short on time this AM...give us a little help here and let us know what you have to work with...
Drop me a line... Many ways to get "In the Air" better than what your trying to do...
All the Best
BJ

 

[Se7en]

Morse: Not knowing your situation as far as space...
Here's a few antennas to think about...
Look up All Band Doublet....(Best Option)
How about a 1/4 GP for 20m (thats a 1/2 on 10m)...
A 40m dipole will work very well on 15m

I am not going to start WWIII and give my thoughts on using the Miracle A99 antenna or Imax as a multi-Band Antenna...

The EDZ or Double Zepp....will kick a$$ and take names over trying to make one of those work on any band except where it was made for....but under some band conditions the Doublet/Zepp/EDZ will be Better!

I am a little short on time this AM...give us a little help here and let us know what you have to work with...
Drop me a line... Many ways to get "In the Air" better than what your trying to do...
All the Best
BJ

Okay ill snap a pic when it gets sunny out this morning of where I can mount another antenna I think a dipole would be perfect for the area I have. Ill check out the antenna your talking about shortly.

Sent from Outerspace, on the DarkSide of X.

 

[Lefty]

What exactly does this mean in English. ?

Tuning accuracy: VSWR 1.5:1 or less Insertion loss: Less than 1.0 dB(after tuning).

How come when you have a 24' 28mhz base antenna and it tunes 20m great tx is okay. 17m sucks 12m tunes great. 6M it tunes but can't be heard even on across town. Not even ssb.

Sent from Outerspace, on the DarkSide of X.

All the tuner does is make the radio happy by allowing it to transfer all it's output to the load (antenna). You can tune almost anything and dump RF into it, but that won't make it a good antenna.

This is where resonance and efficiency comes into play. Don't get hung up on SWR (or VSWR), its only use is keeping the radio happy. A lot of good operating time is wasted trying to get that perfect SWR. The closer an antenna is to being resonant, the more efficiently it will radiate the signal and be better heard.

Go to this link and download the PDF:
Understanding Antennas For the Non-technical Ham by N4JA - An online Book!

73!

 

[Se7en]

All the tuner does is make the radio happy by allowing it to transfer all it's output to the load (antenna). You can tune almost anything and dump RF into it, but that won't make it a good antenna.

This is where resonance and efficiency comes into play. Don't get hung up on SWR (or VSWR), its only use is keeping the radio happy. A lot of good operating time is wasted trying to get that perfect SWR. The closer an antenna is to being resonant, the more efficiently it will radiate the signal and be better heard.

Go to this link and download the PDF:
Understanding Antennas For the Non-technical Ham by N4JA - An online Book!

73!

Im not hung on the swr its more of not getting my signal out....which explains what my problem is.

Sent from Outerspace, on the DarkSide of X.

 

[BJ radionut]

Jason/Morse: Couple questions if you don"t mind. I think I looked up your new call...K6DEA correct?
The two push up poles on your qrz pic....How far apart distance wise between the two?
The approx height of each?....How easy to take down?....Then distance(land space)around the perimeter near the poles...I seen a few tree tops in the pics, any others you have accessible and their distance to the poles...
Approx distance from poles to your shack(feed-line Length)...
Did you take any new pics to post here?...
OK enough questions for now...I'll await a further reply if I looked at the correct call...
Need to go pick up a dinner pizza...So will review answers later tonight if you have time to post...
All the Best
BJ

 

[FatHam]

Just an FYI, don't think you're going to use 6m locally like you can UHF/VHF. Mole and I are 6-7 miles away from each other, both have "tuned" (w/o a tuner) 6M antennas, and it's a rare occasion that we can actually hear each other on 6m.

I've had my 6m antenna up for about 6 months and haven't heard the band open yet.

 

[Se7en]

Jason/Morse: Couple questions if you don"t mind. I think I looked up your new call...K6DEA correct?
The two push up poles on your qrz pic....How far apart distance wise between the two?
The approx height of each?....How easy to take down?....Then distance(land space)around the perimeter near the poles...I seen a few tree tops in the pics, any others you have accessible and their distance to the poles...
Approx distance from poles to your shack(feed-line Length)...
Did you take any new pics to post here?...
OK enough questions for now...I'll await a further reply if I looked at the correct call...
Need to go pick up a dinner pizza...So will review answers later tonight if you have time to post...
All the Best
BJ

Correct. The tree is not on my property. They are both 35' from tip of pole to pole. They are about 14' or more apart..... I have no other place to put those two antennas anywhere else on the property.
If u look where the vertical is on the roof of the house on the wall if I hung a dipole there both legs would be n. & s. Thus I can tx rx.

same if i hung a dipole from each push up pole it would work E to W right?

Ok wasnt sure about 6m.....I guess it really is magical and maybe my tuner is working ok. just have to wait for band openings.


Sent from Outerspace, on the DarkSide of X.

 

[Mudfoot]

Just an FYI, don't think you're going to use 6m locally like you can UHF/VHF. Mole and I are 6-7 miles away from each other, both have "tuned" (w/o a tuner) 6M antennas, and it's a rare occasion that we can actually hear each other on 6m.

I've had my 6m antenna up for about 6 months and haven't heard the band open yet.

Must have some unfavorable conditions between your stations.

I live in the rolling hills of Southeast Ohio. I work several stations within a 35mile radius and we all are using dipoles with barefoot rigs. My wire is only around 25 feet. The only time have have issues is when my powerline noise kicks in. Back in the 70's 6 meters was very busy around here, cursed 2 meters came in style and can't pry them dudes away from the repeaters.

 

[Moleculo]

Must have some unfavorable conditions between your stations.

Too many tall hills / small mountains between us for line of sight HF. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. 2 meters and even 440 seem to work better than anything lower in frequency. Southern California is a real interesting place for ham radio ops, that's for sure.