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What is the best way to monitor your own transmission?

mr_fx

Sr. Member
Oct 8, 2011
1,536
172
173
Kansas City
Simple question really.

I would like to setup a radio (call it radio 'R') I would like to use Radio 'R' to listen to myself over the air.

I was trying another radio, no antenna, RF gain all the way down. However it's still not really working out for me. Any ideas on making the receiving radio not distort and/or feedback?

I figure if I use headphones that would help with the feedback I think.
 

Diode detector audio circuit with op amp and headphones

Diode detector audio circuit with op amp and headphones as in the Dosy Meters. It will detect your audio from the RF and put out to headphones. By adjusting the volume of the monitor to comfortable listening, you can use this to set your mic gain, also while looking at your modulation meter to get a visual view as well as a audial sense of the audio. Its great!
 
Serious question, why do you think it won't be what you sound like over the air?
- 'Doc

Well think about it. You have talk back on. ever notice how turning up the RF power does nothing to the talk back? talk back on my HR2510 sounds like junk... Yet I sound GREAT on the air.

I think the thing is that all talk back setups are not created equal. A Cobra 29 with a resistor soldered between the PA and Ext Speaker will give you talk back. However it has nothing to do with what you will sound like on the air after going through the 29's final circuit. In this case it is more of a indication of what the PA system sounds like.
 
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My impression is that most 'talkback' implementations are tapped from somewhere in the audio stage in the radio rather than the RF stage. This will tell you what your mic input sounds like, but this may not necessarily be a true reflection of what you sound like on the air. If your radio has been too heavily "golden-screwdrivered," there may be distortion present due to over-modulation or excess drive power which won't be evident just by listening to the audio stages.

Some ham rigs have actual RF monitors in them, which give you a good impression of what you actually sound like on the air, but even these can fool you if you use an amp.

In my opinion, the detector circuit that 76Q suggested is probably your best bet. Using a separate receiver is a good approach too, but it has one drawback: what you hear will be limited by the receiver's frequency response, which will depend on the IF filters and audio amp design. On the one hand, most people you talk to will likely have similar receivers, so this will give you an indication of what they hear. On the other hand, if you decided to try improving your transmitter's frequency response (e.g. more bass or treble), you may not be able to hear too much difference unless you modify the receiver for better response as well. In other words, what you'll be hearing on the other receiver won't necessarily be an accurate representation of your actual transmitted signal.

The diode detector circuit approach removes all the filtering limitations so, assuming you use a good set of headphones, you'll be able to hear exactly what you sound like. I wasn't aware that Dosy meter systems had those, but if so that's a good way to do it. There's also this:

RF Sampler | RF Demodulator | AM Modulation Monitor | Products

The downside to this is that it only works for AM. For SSB, you'll need a receiver. Same for FM. So a combination of a good receiver and a simple diode detector circuit would probably be ideal.

It's obviously pretty easy to overload a nearby receiver though. Some suggestions to try and deal with that:

- Connect the receiving rig to a dummy load
- Find a rig with an RF gain control and crank it to minimum sensitivity
- Find a 'sacrificial lamb' receiver that you don't care about and add some padding resistors to the receive path somewhere to really dampen its sensitivity

If you want to go really nuts, you could try to find a receiver with an IF output tap and use a software-defined radio program to demodulate the signal with a computer. Some packages will give you a nice spectrum display and will allow you to set the receive bandwidth as wide as you like. This assumes you have some money to burn though. :)

-Bill
 
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If your "Monitor" radio is not across the room, you can still experience distortion and feedback.
I use a Realistic Navaho TRC 492 set up on the other side of the room with a back of set antenna and the RF gain set low.

No feedback, no distortion.
 
My impression is that most 'talkback' implementations are tapped from somewhere in the audio stage in the radio rather than the RF stage. This will tell you what your mic input sounds like, but this may not necessarily be a true reflection of what you sound like on the air. If your radio has been too heavily "golden-screwdrivered," there may be distortion present due to over-modulation or excess drive power which won't be evident just by listening to the audio stages.

Some ham rigs have actual RF monitors in them, which give you a good impression of what you actually sound like on the air, but even these can fool you if you use an amp.

In my opinion, the detector circuit that 76Q suggested is probably your best bet. Using a separate receiver is a good approach too, but it has one drawback: what you hear will be limited by the receiver's frequency response, which will depend on the IF filters and audio amp design. On the one hand, most people you talk to will likely have similar receivers, so this will give you an indication of what they hear. On the other hand, if you decided to try improving your transmitter's frequency response (e.g. more bass or treble), you may not be able to hear too much difference unless you modify the receiver for better response as well. In other words, what you'll be hearing on the other receiver won't necessarily be an accurate representation of your actual transmitted signal.

The diode detector circuit approach removes all the filtering limitations so, assuming you use a good set of headphones, you'll be able to hear exactly what you sound like. I wasn't aware that Dosy meter systems had those, but if so that's a good way to do it. There's also this:

RF Sampler | RF Demodulator | AM Modulation Monitor | Products

The downside to this is that it only works for AM. For SSB, you'll need a receiver. Same for FM. So a combination of a good receiver and a simple diode detector circuit would probably be ideal.

It's obviously pretty easy to overload a nearby receiver though. Some suggestions to try and deal with that:

- Connect the receiving rig to a dummy load
- Find a rig with an RF gain control and crank it to minimum sensitivity
- Find a 'sacrificial lamb' receiver that you don't care about and add some padding resistors to the receive path somewhere to really dampen its sensitivity

If you want to go really nuts, you could try to find a receiver with an IF output tap and use a software-defined radio program to demodulate the signal with a computer. Some packages will give you a nice spectrum display and will allow you to set the receive bandwidth as wide as you like. This assumes you have some money to burn though. :)

-Bill


Ultimately that is the way to do it, with a diode detector and amp. It should really be a sample of the transmitted RF and not just some audio picked off the modulator stage somewhere to give a real example. A nearby radio is subject to overload and cannot be reliable because of that.In our AM broadcast sites we had homebrew diode detectors consisting of a simple 1N34A diode, an RF choke and a couple capacitors and a resistor all housed in a metal mini-box with a BNC connector for RF pick up and a 1/4 inch jack for audio output.The audio was fed to a monitor amp. The RF pick up was a torroid wound inductor slipped over the center core of the main transmission line. IIRC even my Kenwood TS-820S has a monitor function that is derived from RF and not simply an audio feed from the audio amp/modulator. Audio "talk back" seems to be purely a CB thing.
 
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Or go to someone else's station and listen to them on yours. That'll give you an indication of how well your station sounds. I think that's a better indication than listening to my self, no one ever thinks that's how they really sound like to others anyway.
- 'Doc
 
diode detector with flat response variable audio amp.

RF diode detector with flat response variable audio amp based on the LM386 chip commonly used in musical instrument pickup amps, this is what the Dosy TC-4002-PSW-V has inside of it, and you plug your stereo or mono headphones (its wired for both!) to the 1/8" audio jack and there you go. There is even a separate volume control on the lastest generation of this Dosy to fine tune the monitored audio. I can monitor audio detected on the RF as it passes through the meter at any power level that the Dosy can handle. No one talks about this feature, but those in the know use it copiously and that is only one of the reasons why I like the Dosy. One more trick. For additional audio level monitoring control when using the Dosy at very high power, I use a set of Sony earbuds with external volume control to pad out the baseline noise that occurs from high levels of RF directly rectifying over the audio leads in the Dosy. After this rectification noise is filtered out I increase the Dosy volume control and set control that drives the LM386 amp level for a clean detected audio sample. For the price of the meter you get this important circuit that is incidentally very well designed as their meter movements which are among the nicest. There is a lot of value in it, no doubt if you desire to monitor your station without paying more than you need to. Finally, Talkback is good for things like making sure your audio stages are working and to set your echo with limited accuracy or for comparing mic to mic audio quality. For over the air monitoring, the diode detector circuit is the way to go, or a sacrificial radio with RF gain control and earphone and dummy load, as already been mentioned.
---------------
Ultimately that is the way to do it, with a diode detector and amp. It should really be a sample of the transmitted RF and not just some audio picked off the modulator stage somewhere to give a real example. A nearby radio is subject to overload and cannot be reliable because of that.In our AM broadcast sites we had homebrew diode detectors consisting of a simple 1N34A diode, an RF choke and a couple capacitors and a resistor all housed in a metal mini-box with a BNC connector for RF pick up and a 1/4 inch jack for audio output.The audio was fed to a monitor amp. The RF pick up was a torroid wound inductor slipped over the center core of the main transmission line. IIRC even my Kenwood TS-820S has a monitor function that is derived from RF and not simply an audio feed from the audio amp/modulator. Audio "talk back" seems to be purely a CB thing.
 


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