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Good post Tim. People do tend to get all caught up in the take off angle thing and don't realize that sometimes a low TOA is not what is needed or desirable. HH proved that with his repeater problem. I used to use a 7/8 wave collinear on 2m and it worked fantastic for reaching out to far away repeaters or on simplex. It sucked when in close to high repeaters and a simple 1/4 wave worked better. There are times when a high TOA is what is needed to cover a shorter DX contact as well.

Also you were quite right in saying that effectiveness and efficiency are two completely different things. An antenna can be quite effective but not very efficient as is often the case with very low band antennas like VLF antennas or they can be very efficient but not very effective as in very small, well built magnetic loop antennas. A properly built mag-loop maybe 90+% efficient but have a smaller signal than a simple dipole.

<blockquote data-quote="Captain Kilowatt" data-source="post: 281769" data-attributes="member: 39">Good post Tim. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f44d.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":thumbup1:" title="Thumbs Up&nbsp; &nbsp; :thumbup1:"&nbsp; data-smilie="27"data-shortname=":thumbup1:" /> People do tend to get all caught up in the take off angle thing and don&#039;t realize that sometimes a low TOA is not what is needed or desirable. HH proved that with his repeater problem. I used to use a 7/8 wave collinear on 2m and it worked fantastic for reaching out to far away repeaters or on simplex. It sucked when in close to high repeaters and a simple 1/4 wave worked better. There are times when a high TOA is what is needed to cover a shorter DX contact as well. &nbsp; Also you were quite right in saying that effectiveness and efficiency are two completely different things. An antenna can be quite effective but not very efficient as is often the case with very low band antennas like VLF antennas or they can be very efficient but not very effective as in very small, well built magnetic loop antennas. A properly built mag-loop maybe 90+% efficient but have a smaller signal than a simple dipole.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Captain Kilowatt, post: 281769, member: 39"] Good post Tim. :thumbup1: People do tend to get all caught up in the take off angle thing and don't realize that sometimes a low TOA is not what is needed or desirable. HH proved that with his repeater problem. I used to use a 7/8 wave collinear on 2m and it worked fantastic for reaching out to far away repeaters or on simplex. It sucked when in close to high repeaters and a simple 1/4 wave worked better. There are times when a high TOA is what is needed to cover a shorter DX contact as well. Also you were quite right in saying that effectiveness and efficiency are two completely different things. An antenna can be quite effective but not very efficient as is often the case with very low band antennas like VLF antennas or they can be very efficient but not very effective as in very small, well built magnetic loop antennas. A properly built mag-loop maybe 90+% efficient but have a smaller signal than a simple dipole. [/QUOTE]

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