102" whip VS Wilson 5000

[Pistol Pete]

Open discussion about what your experiences are Im looking to weigh the Pros and cons of Mounting a Wilson 1000 or 5000 Dead center on the roof of my 86 K5 Blazer OR mounting a 102" whip on the Drivers side rear Quarter panel.

The Radio used in this rig is a Magnum 257.
the purpose is Hunting, and off road emergency telecommunications.
Considering a Linear for an extra emergency boost of send.
Primary terrain is the Mountains of the Pacific northwest,
(forest with Peaks averaging 5000 feet in elevation with Drainages descending
an average of 1500 feet)
weather is a consideration in this scenario.
Distance to civilization can be greater than 150 miles.
Cell phone service is not an option.

The scenario is this. For whatever reason, your stuck/you have an emergency/you need to call OUT in the above described terrain.
Given the height of the trees along these roads mounting the 102 on the roof is not an option. You have the Wilson on the top with a 64" whip
Or the 102" on the side.

You can augment My Magnum Radio with anything you like from Mods to Linear amps. (we are under the assumption that SWR readings are optimal for the given set up) (Or as good as they can be)

The Truck is a 6.2Diesel with Two 870Amp 12v batteries, and a 90 amp alternator.

For whatever reason your stuck at the bottom of a 1500 foot drainage with inclimate weather bearing down on you, your 150 miles from the nearest town. cell phones are not working.

Describe the rig that would be Heard in this scenario, 150 miles away.
amps and all.

After your comments, Ill most likely build the rig that makes the most sense based on your feedback.

 

[binrat]

I've had a few 5000 mounted on my old 05 gmc sierra and have a 102 mounted on my new sierra. I'm liking the 102 over the old 5000.

 

[BOOTY MONSTER]

i wouldn't mount any antenna on the rear quarter panel of a blazer . too much metal height on the vehicle above the antennas feed-point . and a 102-108 on the roof will have a illegal tip height ..... if you care about being legal . sticking with your antenna choices i'd choose the 5000 on the roof . personally .... i'd prefer a predator 10k or a sirio 5000 pro on the roof . but it's your money so spend it on what you feel is best for you .

 

[space cowboy]

I don't know about the rear quarter, but a 102 on the back end of the blazer will give you a fair bit of gain towards the front end. if you're sure you can point the vehicle in the direction you're calling for help, I'd go with the 102.
the rear of the car though... no broadcast and poor receive.
you might want to go with an antenna you can move to better direct your output power.
now if you were to put a mount on each corner...
I loved my 102, but I hated the directionality.

 

[VE6SDG]

Ok I know this is in the CB area of the forum but I have to say that I would not want to rely on a CB in an emergency to contact someone. I'd say to do a bit of studying and get your Ham license and put a 2m VHF in your rig. I do have both a 2m and CB in my Jeep for off roading but use my 2m much more.
This link will show you where repeaters are located in any state.

Amateur Radio Repeater database - Updated daily

We have a repeater on the top of a mountain near where I am and I can easily hit it with a 5w handheld VHF radio (my mobile rig puts out almost 70w stock) and external mag mount antenna from 65 miles away. This repeater is linked to 4 other repeaters and the total coverage from point to point is over 300 miles.

I do have a 102" whip for the CB in the Jeep and it does perform very well to keep on topic.

 

[Pistol Pete]

ham huh?

"get your Ham license and put a 2m VHF in your rig"
Never thought about that.. thats a great idea!
what kind of antenna does that take?

Monster, Im going to look into those antennas you mentioned.
What do you like best about them?

 

[BOOTY MONSTER]

i like the performance , solid construction , looks , modular construction and price of the 10k's .

don't have the sirio , but in every comparison i've read about it compared to the wilson 5000 the sirio 5000 pro has won .

 

[Turbo T]

I currently own both the Wilson 5k and a 102 (actually a 108 from MFJ) and IMO the 108 is a better antenna.

Me personally, I would run the 102 on the roof of the truck....yes I know it's not your cup of tea, but think about this....you're goal is to get out in the event of an emergency, right? Ok, keep this in mind....the Wilson 5000 is a "compromise" antenna....meaning it will work, but it's been shortened for clearance and for those who don't want a big ol' antenna protruding from their roof.

The 102 OTOH is NOT a compromise antenna....yes it's tall, yes it will prune trees, yes it will scrape bank canopies and yes it will make the whole crew at the Mickey D's drive thru wonder who in China you enjoy talking to....HOWEVER it will not only allow your radio to "hear" farther but it will also allow your radios to "talk" farther, with it mounted on top of the roof, as opposed to mounted on the side, and as opposed to the Wilson 5000, all things equal.

So take it for what it's worth.

Also just a heads up, I too run a Magnum 257 (the HP model) thru the 108 whip. It's what I would call a perfect match...as in I can run both 10 and 11 meters thru this antenna. With the Wilson 5000, I would have to change antennas.

Of course you need to be a licensed amateur to use 10 meters, but just thought I'd throw that out there. Also no amps are needed here....on a barefoot Magnum 257 and my 102 I was able to talk skip to California today sitting in my driveway.

"get your Ham license and put a 2m VHF in your rig"
Never thought about that.. thats a great idea!
what kind of antenna does that take?

I am going to piggy back on this....what he said is correct, however if there are any local repeaters in the area you are at, it will greatly increase your chances of contacting someone.

With that said, a 2 M radio takes anywhere from a 20" antenna to a 51" antenna.

 

[jazzsinger]

i wouldn't mount any antenna on the rear quarter panel of a blazer . too much metal height on the vehicle above the antennas feed-point . and a 102-108 on the roof will have a illegal tip height ..... if you care about being legal . sticking with your antenna choices i'd choose the 5000 on the roof . personally .... i'd prefer a predator 10k or a sirio 5000 pro on the roof . but it's your money so spend it on what you feel is best for you .

i'm with booty, any advantage you would gain from a 102" whip (should be about 105" for the US cb band by the way) would be lost from the crap mounting position you plan on limiting it too.

therefore you'd be better off with a sirio 5000 or 4000 series, a 10k or even your choices of the wilson 1000/5000 as long as they are mounted in the centre of the roof.

like others i would never rely on a cb for emergency comms, mobile phones and smoke signals/distress flares are far more reliable than cb, especially if the nearest civilisation is 150 miles away. writing "HELP" in the ground and hoping an aircraft flies by overhead would be more reliable than cb.


i personally would mount the shortened whip on a drilled or magnetic so239 base for mobile use, and carry a so239 to 3/8 adaptor made by sirio and other companies so that i could use the full 1/4 wave whip or two piece variety (which are cheap to carry and ideal as a spare) when i was static mobile.

over here a decent so239 / 3/8 adaptor by sirio is about 5 quid, a small expense which opens up infinite antenna mounting options for you to chose.


sirio 3/8 - so239 adaptor

i'd use this type of sirio dv/so239 mount

or if a drilled mount isn't possible a sirio mag145pl mag base.

the adaptor and either base will let you mount 99% of cb/amateur mobile antennas, the last time i bought a sirio mag 145pl it came with proper mil-c-17f rg58, i believe new ones are marked with M17/28. so should be good at least up to 300w, a far more flexible system than using a standard 3/8" mount which doesn't stop you using 3/8" antennas.

 

[jazzsinger]

if your really masochistic you could add this adaptor for the other 1% of shit dv mount antennas.

 

[The DB]

When it comes to emergency communications having the ability to use multiple frequencies is a big plus.

If you are on or near an established trail when you have a problem what is the most likely type of radio others on that trail might have? I know many rigs have a CB installed, but that is not the only form of communication used on trails. I also know some people use FRS/GMRS/MURS radios as well as some Ham radios. If you are not on an established trail this becomes moot.

If near a highway a CB would be useful assuming you can get a response from a passing motorist (usually trucker). Even on a country road it is possible that a vehicle with a CB is it is within range, the question at that point would be is it on.

2 Meter (Ham Radio) repeater coverage gets to most places of the US, even rural. Although if you have a hand held unit you may have to climb a hill (which depending on the situation may be a good option as if your vehicle has rolled on its side).

Communications over skip could also be possible, although the useable frequencies change over time. HF Ham Radio with a tuner would be more reliable than the very limited frequencies you get with a CB.

With your choice of CB antennas, anything less than a quarter wave whip (the 102" option) is a compromise. However the mounting location you have given for that antennas use is also a compromise. Given the options you listed I would go with a Wilson 5000 mounted in the middle of the roof.

Going beyond those CB antenna options I would consider a Sirio 5000 or a predator 10k. A fair number of the newer Wilson 5000's have been iffy and I personally no longer trust them.


The DB

 

[The Jerk]

Having had both a 102 (with RG8) and roof-mounted W5000 (with RG8x) installed on the same standard cab truck, using the same radio(s) and amplifier(s)...I noted several things swapping between the Wilson and 102:

- The 102 is noisier, as in more white noise/higher noise floor.

- The 102 is obviously more durable.

- The 102 is cheaper.

There was no noticeable difference in performance between the two otherwise. They talked the same distance, shot skip the same, picked up very similar (although the 102 was a little hard to discern at low levels due to its increased noise), and both handled a 1x4 Class C Amp (although the 102 will definitely handle more power than the Wilson).

And my 102 was mounted so better than six feet of its length was above the roof line of a pickup (bed rail mounted)...both had SWR below 1.5:1 (closer to 1.1:1). In other words, my 102 was probably more optimal than one mounted to the side of an SUV. On my previous Dodge standard cab, I probably had the same amount of roof as your K5 (assuming the rear section of a K5 is still fiberglass?).

For this very reason, I went with the Wilson on my new truck...effective, blends into the truck better, no wiring external of the cab to get damaged. If I ever get my M37 on the road, it will have a 102 for the off-road durability...but keep in mind a 102 is only as durable as its mount.

 

[bigred222]

great conversation here i have been wondering what would work better myself. im currently using a wilson 1k mag on the trunk of my 98' audi a4. it works pretty good but im just wondering if i could change it to something else to notice a significant improvement

 

[radioreddz]

i know i have run the ilson 1000',5000, 10k,monkey made coils as well as a 102" whip with the spring and the 18' of coax all magneticly mounted on the roof of my suburban and have found no real knock down drag out difference bewteen any of them. i just mainly talk SSB never use more the 500 watts and found they all pretty much talk the same DXing or local. only real diffrence i have found is that the 10K and 102" whip are far more wide banded with the whip giving me from 25 megs clear thru 30 megs and still have swr's from 1.1 to 1.5. on a mfj analyzer. maybe for the guys running extream watts there maybe some performance differences but just for some DXing and local i see no real reason to change one from the other if what you are using is working good.

 

[VE6SDG]

"get your Ham license and put a 2m VHF in your rig"
Never thought about that.. thats a great idea!
what kind of antenna does that take?

I use one on an NMO type mount that is 40" tall. Depending on what class of license you get. If you get the use of all the HF bands you could easily talk to Moscow with about 100w with an all band transceiver and a Tarheel screwdriver type antenna. You can make it as cheap or expensive as you like which is one nice part of the hobby. My first base station cost me 400 bucks with the antenna and tuner and I've talked to Moscow, Siberia and Austria all with 100w.