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2 Element Yagi for Remote DX
- Thread starter hobie102
- Start date
Hobie, good chatting with you today on .395. As Han Solo said, "She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts."
Hi all done ! had to work at night and the early morning .To bloody hot here during the day. 4.30 pm and it's still over 100. 5 th el on and swr is good come up as modeled can't really measure the gain difference. The F to b is higher. I can now make a s 8 signal completely vanish off the back .
Did a sweep using my analyzer as a sig gen and placed it about 100 meters away and plotted a polar graph .It came out as predicted by the software so I guess it works. I optimized it for 28.3 but still get 8 db on ch 38 but with a lower f to b.
Work into the states a lot Iv'e got 46 states confirmed on 10 and the west coast is a daily occurrence.
Still think your 2 el boom is too short for direct feed . We are lucky that 2 el's aren't as critical and are fairly easy to get some gain and F to b .
The first parasitic element you add is the best bang for buck you get ,a great place to start 5 db gain or there a bouts. It's a case of diminishing returns For me now to get an other 5db I would need another 7 elements and about an extra 12 meters of boom .So iv'e gone about as far as I can afford. Would love to see how you handle a 2 el portable quad. Hope to catch you on 27 mhz some day. Ps Obama and crew go home today. Thank God ! The extra security has really stuffed Brisbane up.
Did a sweep using my analyzer as a sig gen and placed it about 100 meters away and plotted a polar graph .It came out as predicted by the software so I guess it works. I optimized it for 28.3 but still get 8 db on ch 38 but with a lower f to b.
Work into the states a lot Iv'e got 46 states confirmed on 10 and the west coast is a daily occurrence.
Still think your 2 el boom is too short for direct feed . We are lucky that 2 el's aren't as critical and are fairly easy to get some gain and F to b .
The first parasitic element you add is the best bang for buck you get ,a great place to start 5 db gain or there a bouts. It's a case of diminishing returns For me now to get an other 5db I would need another 7 elements and about an extra 12 meters of boom .So iv'e gone about as far as I can afford. Would love to see how you handle a 2 el portable quad. Hope to catch you on 27 mhz some day. Ps Obama and crew go home today. Thank God ! The extra security has really stuffed Brisbane up.
VK, good job!
I personally would have thrown that yagi in the trash. No offense intended of course. After speaking with my buddy in FL yest' I'm pretty much convinced that there is a really big diff' with what works on paper and the real world. I would have personally put up a hexbeam or cubical quad. I will be changing the configuration of the yagi to a moxon this week. I will be able to run that at 13 feet with no advantage to going higher.
As far as folks saying that a positive tilt does nothing but send your signal into space, they really have no idea how the ionosphere works. He's actually running a 5* pos tilt on his hex. I have run as much as a 10 deg pos tilt on my moxon with great results.
I think the next base antenna will be a cubical quad or a hex. Far less noise with those designs. Paper is a great starting point but there's nothing wrong with experimenting and going outside the box.
Made some nice contacts yest' west coast and central/southern US effortlessly. Running very little power so the antenna is working well. Gotta get that reconfigured to a moxon and then the game is on! Have I said I love my moxon? Yea, prob'!
I personally would have thrown that yagi in the trash. No offense intended of course. After speaking with my buddy in FL yest' I'm pretty much convinced that there is a really big diff' with what works on paper and the real world. I would have personally put up a hexbeam or cubical quad. I will be changing the configuration of the yagi to a moxon this week. I will be able to run that at 13 feet with no advantage to going higher.As far as folks saying that a positive tilt does nothing but send your signal into space, they really have no idea how the ionosphere works. He's actually running a 5* pos tilt on his hex. I have run as much as a 10 deg pos tilt on my moxon with great results.
I think the next base antenna will be a cubical quad or a hex. Far less noise with those designs. Paper is a great starting point but there's nothing wrong with experimenting and going outside the box.
Made some nice contacts yest' west coast and central/southern US effortlessly. Running very little power so the antenna is working well. Gotta get that reconfigured to a moxon and then the game is on! Have I said I love my moxon? Yea, prob'!
Hobie,
For conversation sake PLEASE provide documentation or a link to a web site showing that a "tilted" yagi has better performance than a yagi that is horizontal/perpendicular to the ground.
[QUOTE="hobie102, post: 502521,
As far as folks saying that a positive tilt does nothing but send your signal into space, they really have no idea how the ionosphere works. He's actually running a 5* pos tilt on his hex. I have run as much as a 10 deg pos tilt on my moxon with great results.
[/QUOTE]
For conversation sake PLEASE provide documentation or a link to a web site showing that a "tilted" yagi has better performance than a yagi that is horizontal/perpendicular to the ground.
[QUOTE="hobie102, post: 502521,
As far as folks saying that a positive tilt does nothing but send your signal into space, they really have no idea how the ionosphere works. He's actually running a 5* pos tilt on his hex. I have run as much as a 10 deg pos tilt on my moxon with great results.
[/QUOTE]
I must admit I can't see how 10 deg up or down is going to make much difference on a moxon the pattern is to broad.
Actually people that tilt yagis skyward are the ones that do not know how the ionosphere works regarding angle of incidence and angle of reflection nor do they understand how an HF antenna derives it's take-off angle.
Never said it works better! Did I? It is an option and has worked for me and others in diff' situations. Just a plane old fact whether you like it or not.
Here's a little tidbit for ya. I was on the mountain this afternoon. Stepped the mast with the antenna on it. had the compass in hand and set the azimuth on the yagi for where I wanted to go. (I made a mast out of 2 10 ft 2x4's that step on the trailer hitch, just walking it up, about 23 feet above ground including the added extension allowing it to rotate). I sat in the truck wondering why the propagation was so bad. No contacts made for about 45 minutes. Very low signals coming in. I plugged in the swr meter and checked the ant'. Perfect. Sat for a few more minutes. Nothing! I looked up thru the sunroof to make sure the antenna was ok. I noticed the coax was going in the wrong direction and the yagi was facing east not west. When I had stepped the mast the antenna rotated perfect 180 degrees. Lowered the mast and tied a rope to the boom. Restepped and aligned the antenna (tensioning screws didn't hold allowing it to turn). Bang! In the game to OR CA and everywhere in between. Real world experience folks. Don't believe everything you read! Paper and the like are great starting points but there are a lot of ideas out there that really do work. F toB is excellent as well as gain. No problem on 15-20 watts. Even with the 2x4 mast assembly,(3 bots with wing nuts) it's flying in under 2 minutes. Yes, not perfect and certainly not pretty from a hack like me. But, it gets me west with no problem and stations have been consistently telling me they can' believe I'm mobile. Cheers! Another successful antenna project.
I wanted to add I won't be reconfiguring to a moxon. The setup is so easy right now and so effective I can't justify the added time in setting up a collapsible moxon. pob' would just put together a quad instead.
Here's a little tidbit for ya. I was on the mountain this afternoon. Stepped the mast with the antenna on it. had the compass in hand and set the azimuth on the yagi for where I wanted to go. (I made a mast out of 2 10 ft 2x4's that step on the trailer hitch, just walking it up, about 23 feet above ground including the added extension allowing it to rotate). I sat in the truck wondering why the propagation was so bad. No contacts made for about 45 minutes. Very low signals coming in. I plugged in the swr meter and checked the ant'. Perfect. Sat for a few more minutes. Nothing! I looked up thru the sunroof to make sure the antenna was ok. I noticed the coax was going in the wrong direction and the yagi was facing east not west. When I had stepped the mast the antenna rotated perfect 180 degrees. Lowered the mast and tied a rope to the boom. Restepped and aligned the antenna (tensioning screws didn't hold allowing it to turn). Bang! In the game to OR CA and everywhere in between. Real world experience folks. Don't believe everything you read! Paper and the like are great starting points but there are a lot of ideas out there that really do work. F toB is excellent as well as gain. No problem on 15-20 watts. Even with the 2x4 mast assembly,(3 bots with wing nuts) it's flying in under 2 minutes. Yes, not perfect and certainly not pretty from a hack like me. But, it gets me west with no problem and stations have been consistently telling me they can' believe I'm mobile. Cheers! Another successful antenna project.
I wanted to add I won't be reconfiguring to a moxon. The setup is so easy right now and so effective I can't justify the added time in setting up a collapsible moxon. pob' would just put together a quad instead.
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Then why do it if it does not work better?
Pointing an antenna skyward, IF it did in fact change the take-off angle, would simply shorten the skip length your signal would travel. That's the part I was talking about with incident and reflective angles. The ionosphere is like a mirror basically. The signal will leave it at about the same angle it arrives.....basically. The other part about what I said is that at HF an antenna's take-off angle is derived mainly from the height above ground and the quality of the ground under it. Changing the boom angle from horizontal by 5 or 10 degrees will not amount to a hill of beans difference.
You are not really mobile when you set up a base type antenna especially a yagi of any type. Most refer to that type of operation as static-mobile meaning a mobile station set up at a temporary location usually with a base antenna of some sort.
That's exactly how I hail! "Static Mobile! Be careful what you assume. Remember, assumption is the mother of all #u%# ups! But, then again, most hams would never know that as they're to busy gasping for air face down in their assumption filled bowls in their pompous little world. That's the biggest reason I will never get a ticket. I would never associate myself with those kind of folks. Can't even begin to count the # of hams I've met on the air that haven't employed the use of their ticket in years and spend all their time on 11 meters. They can't stand their kind, 11 meters is exponentially more fun and they get to have intelligent and meaningful qso's.
2 things I've learned in life; 1. Question everything. 2 Assume nothing.
2 things I've learned in life; 1. Question everything. 2 Assume nothing.
You sound just like the type that wouldn't fit in on the ham bands anywayso thankfully you don't want to be there. As for assuming things, maybe if you filled in the blanks and used proper terminology people would not have to assume things. When you said people can't believe you are mobile it means that you told them you were mobile and that means using a mobile antenna whether you are actually driving at the time or not. Using a base antenna while parked somewhere is NOT mobile. Don't criticize me for assuming something if you don't provide true info using proper terms.
Oh and you should address your #2 above. You have some pretty bad ASSUMPTIONS about hams in general. 99 % are are not like that just like not all CBers are like you. Some are pretty decent.
Oh and you should address your #2 above. You have some pretty bad ASSUMPTIONS about hams in general. 99 % are are not like that just like not all CBers are like you. Some are pretty decent.
Easy answer to that. There has been a geomagnetic storm causing radio blackout to R2 level in the past 24hrs which would be so bad you'd wonder whether you actually had the antenna plugged in. A index as I type this is still over 20 and K is finally dropping below 3 so you may start to hear stuff however a R1 blackout is expected over the next 24hrs from another geomagnetic storm.
When you get bad propogation and can't hear much its always worth looking at the solar reports.
http://www.wm7d.net/hamradio/solar/index.shtml
As to using a base antenna from the car, just to clarify technically you're a portable station. Mobile infers driving down the road or parked up using a mobile antenna attached to the vehicle with the radio powered by the vehicle.
you do realize you are making assumptions in a statement in which you say not to make assumptions?