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2007 JK JEEP ANTENNA MOUNT
- Thread starter Happy_Hamer
- Start date
rfoverlord said:
OMG don't do it! It is a trap! I mean it just has to be a trap. (shakes head) An XYL that actually says "what ever you think will make you happy and works good" when it comes to radio? Be carefull. Be very carefull.
Let me translate...
"what ever you think will make you happy and works good"
means..
"I will be buying something that costs 10 times what you are spending but you had better not comment on it"
"what ever you think will make you happy and works good"
means..
"I will be buying something that costs 10 times what you are spending but you had better not comment on it"
The "shorty" screwdrivers are a compromise. There are NO easy "fixes" to this when it comes to HF! 
If you are after the BIG signal, the if-I-can-hear-'em-I-can-work- 'em, then it takes a BIG, "UGLY"(?), BOOFY (pardon to the Croc Hunter) antenna. And that means a FULL-sized HF antenna. If one must compromise (just can't drill that hole on the new Chevy, XYL will shoot to kill 
), then go for the shorty screwdriver. Just don't let "fancy-ness" lull anyone into thinking that "Hey, I can work 160 thru 10 Meters on a pretty, little "shorty" screwdriver that's only 4 feet tall in toto", cuz it ain't gonna happen!!!! Next time you go out to a hamfest where the screwdriver sellers are, take time to LOOK at one of the little "shorty" screwdrivers and compare it to a FULL-sized unit that has, at least, 16 ga. wire wound at 10 TPI.
That fullsized unit will walk ALL OVER the mini unit! So how do they GET all this coverage with a "mini" screwdriver? They use a "skinny" loading coil wound with #18 or #20 wire that is all but "transformer-wound"! IOW, super skinny wire wound closely on this itty bitty coil!
! So, YES! They can get up to 160 thru 10 Meter "coverage"..............BUT! the "Q" of the coil is, like..............in the basement! About as sloppy as a 75M hamstick, and I will all but guarantee you, you AIN'T gonna be heard on FORTY meters all THAT well, almost NO chance on 75 Meters, and the odds on 160? Won't even GO there!! Oh, it will work-----after a fashion. But if you work 40 on one of the mini units, then step up to a full-size screwdriver, it'll make you sick at the difference.
To each his own, and the mini units have their place as does any mobile antenna. Just know the merits of all of them.
Best 73
CWM
If you are after the BIG signal, the if-I-can-hear-'em-I-can-work- 'em, then it takes a BIG, "UGLY"(?), BOOFY (pardon to the Croc Hunter) antenna. And that means a FULL-sized HF antenna. If one must compromise (just can't drill that hole on the new Chevy, XYL will shoot to kill ), then go for the shorty screwdriver. Just don't let "fancy-ness" lull anyone into thinking that "Hey, I can work 160 thru 10 Meters on a pretty, little "shorty" screwdriver that's only 4 feet tall in toto", cuz it ain't gonna happen!!!! Next time you go out to a hamfest where the screwdriver sellers are, take time to LOOK at one of the little "shorty" screwdrivers and compare it to a FULL-sized unit that has, at least, 16 ga. wire wound at 10 TPI.That fullsized unit will walk ALL OVER the mini unit! So how do they GET all this coverage with a "mini" screwdriver? They use a "skinny" loading coil wound with #18 or #20 wire that is all but "transformer-wound"! IOW, super skinny wire wound closely on this itty bitty coil!
! So, YES! They can get up to 160 thru 10 Meter "coverage"..............BUT! the "Q" of the coil is, like..............in the basement! About as sloppy as a 75M hamstick, and I will all but guarantee you, you AIN'T gonna be heard on FORTY meters all THAT well, almost NO chance on 75 Meters, and the odds on 160? Won't even GO there!! Oh, it will work-----after a fashion. But if you work 40 on one of the mini units, then step up to a full-size screwdriver, it'll make you sick at the difference.To each his own, and the mini units have their place as does any mobile antenna. Just know the merits of all of them.
Best 73
CWM
There are some general 'rules' for antennas.
1. Height is inversely proportional to frequency. Low freq = higher antenna. High freq = lower antenna.
2. Length is also inversely proportional to frequency. Lower freq = longer antenna. Higher freq = shorter antenna.
3. The amount of 'shortening' done to an antenna is directly related to it's 'quality'. If it's 50% shorter, it's gonna be worth about 50% of what the 'full sized' one is worth, etc, sort of.
4. Doesn't matter who made it, what it looks like, what it costs, if it puts a signal where you want it, it's good. Even with the above qualifications, if it doesn't put a signal where you want it, it's bad.
5. The antenna you had before the last one will almost always be better than the next one. (Ain't that the $#!&$ ?)
6. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
7. What the @#$$ do they know?!
8. There are exceptions to every rule.
9. If it ain't made from red wire, it's trash.
(see #7)
And last but not least...
10. If you didn't freeze something, burn something, get wet, break something, cut it too short, can't find the @#$ 'do-dad', or didn't mash a finger putting it up, you did it wrong.
- 'Doc
1. Height is inversely proportional to frequency. Low freq = higher antenna. High freq = lower antenna.
2. Length is also inversely proportional to frequency. Lower freq = longer antenna. Higher freq = shorter antenna.
3. The amount of 'shortening' done to an antenna is directly related to it's 'quality'. If it's 50% shorter, it's gonna be worth about 50% of what the 'full sized' one is worth, etc, sort of.
4. Doesn't matter who made it, what it looks like, what it costs, if it puts a signal where you want it, it's good. Even with the above qualifications, if it doesn't put a signal where you want it, it's bad.
5. The antenna you had before the last one will almost always be better than the next one. (Ain't that the $#!&$ ?)
6. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
7. What the @#$$ do they know?!
8. There are exceptions to every rule.
9. If it ain't made from red wire, it's trash.
(see #7)
And last but not least...
10. If you didn't freeze something, burn something, get wet, break something, cut it too short, can't find the @#$ 'do-dad', or didn't mash a finger putting it up, you did it wrong.
- 'Doc
:? wow, too many choices! i'm seriously leaning towards a Hi-Q but i was hoping Hamer would give us a little more insite on the sidekick. I have decided to get the turbo tuner http://www.n2vz.com/ and an MFJ-910 to match impedance for whatever i decide to bolt on.
I decided to go the route of a 102" whip on a ball with an SGC-237 auto tuner/coupler feeding it.
From anything I read this will work about as well as the screwdriver setups and it gives me the ability to hook any random hunk of wire/loop/whatever to it for mucking around in the field.
i mounted it in a nice spot so it's easy to get to the RF output on the coupler to change loads.
This will get me 60m through 6m with any luck.
I'll have it all buttoned up soon and will be able to tell the tale then.
From anything I read this will work about as well as the screwdriver setups and it gives me the ability to hook any random hunk of wire/loop/whatever to it for mucking around in the field.
i mounted it in a nice spot so it's easy to get to the RF output on the coupler to change loads.
This will get me 60m through 6m with any luck.
I'll have it all buttoned up soon and will be able to tell the tale then.
SR385,
For about 20 meters and up, that whip and the SGC tuner will be adequate. Just adequate. If the whip part isn't at least something close to about 1/8 wave length, don't expect much at all. For 40 meters... I really doubt if you'll be happy. I know you won't for 60 meters.
No, I haven't had one, but I do know someone who did. He doesn't anymore. Even tried the short whip with a home-made loading coil. His objective was 75 meters, and it fell way short (pun intended).
Don't misunderstand, it will load. But just like a loaf of bread, too much 'shortening' and you got a really big loaf! Just full of holes though...
- 'Doc
For about 20 meters and up, that whip and the SGC tuner will be adequate. Just adequate. If the whip part isn't at least something close to about 1/8 wave length, don't expect much at all. For 40 meters... I really doubt if you'll be happy. I know you won't for 60 meters.
No, I haven't had one, but I do know someone who did. He doesn't anymore. Even tried the short whip with a home-made loading coil. His objective was 75 meters, and it fell way short (pun intended).
Don't misunderstand, it will load. But just like a loaf of bread, too much 'shortening' and you got a really big loaf! Just full of holes though...
- 'Doc
Yeah I know it's a major compromise, went rounds over it for days before I settled there.
I wish there were a source for reasonably priced longer whips, or maybe fiberglass whips with a lot more winding in them at a 9' length or so.
SGC sells a whip or two but they are $300 for a piece of fiberglass.
I wish there were a source for reasonably priced longer whips, or maybe fiberglass whips with a lot more winding in them at a 9' length or so.
SGC sells a whip or two but they are $300 for a piece of fiberglass.
It depends a lot on what you find objectionable. For the lower bands there's just no getting around the big and ugly thingy. The lower bands have always been a 'problem' doing mobile, I'm afraid that just isn't gonna change. That 'problem' sort of starts to smooth out around 40 meters, but is still subject to that 'big/ugly' thing to some extent (if the tiny antennas are what you think of as 'right', you might as well forget it to start with - lol).
From general experience I've found that when using a tuner such as the SGC, shortening an antenna electrically is easier than lengthening them (caps are smaller than coils, you can get more of them inside that box). So, starting with a loaded antenna tends to work out better than just a whip. I do agree, SGC's whip is sort of over priced (sort of??). Then again, they deal mainly with services that aren't exactly looking for the 'best' to start with, sort of.
I just ~love~ compromises, don't you?
Good luck.
- 'Doc
From general experience I've found that when using a tuner such as the SGC, shortening an antenna electrically is easier than lengthening them (caps are smaller than coils, you can get more of them inside that box). So, starting with a loaded antenna tends to work out better than just a whip. I do agree, SGC's whip is sort of over priced (sort of??). Then again, they deal mainly with services that aren't exactly looking for the 'best' to start with, sort of.
I just ~love~ compromises, don't you?
Good luck.
- 'Doc
One of the things about going with the relatively simple looking 102" whip was that it isn't as conspicuous a target as the screwdriver types.
There are issues with vandalism in my area and I figured a rigidly mounted pipe like a screwdriver that would just snap if someone kicked or pulled on it might be a bigger target than a basic whip on a spring.
The size of the whip doesn't bother me, I'd go larger if I could find one that was say ~$100 and would be supported o.k. by the ball mount. The 102 was I think $20 or so when I got it a few years back.
Some guys have said that the super resonators from Hustler aren't so bad for a per-band antenna, using the coupler to widen their bandwidth.
My main limitation is having whatever I put on that mount tear it off, cosmetics aren't much of an issue for me.
I'll know soon enough, just have to get power to the tuner and put a few ground straps in and I'll be on the air with it, the hard work is already done.
Found this
http://shakespeare-military.com/milantennashow.asp?product=120-49
Though again the price is a bit high with the mount factored in.
There are issues with vandalism in my area and I figured a rigidly mounted pipe like a screwdriver that would just snap if someone kicked or pulled on it might be a bigger target than a basic whip on a spring.
The size of the whip doesn't bother me, I'd go larger if I could find one that was say ~$100 and would be supported o.k. by the ball mount. The 102 was I think $20 or so when I got it a few years back.
Some guys have said that the super resonators from Hustler aren't so bad for a per-band antenna, using the coupler to widen their bandwidth.
My main limitation is having whatever I put on that mount tear it off, cosmetics aren't much of an issue for me.
I'll know soon enough, just have to get power to the tuner and put a few ground straps in and I'll be on the air with it, the hard work is already done.
Found this
http://shakespeare-military.com/milantennashow.asp?product=120-49
Though again the price is a bit high with the mount factored in.
The best thing I can think of is to get/find an antenna for the lowest band of use. Then let the tuner handle the bands above that one. I'm a big fan of the 'bugcatcher' type antennas so that would be ~my~ first choice. They are not miracle workers, and they do have particular 'problems', mostly mechanical. As in supporting/mounting the @#$ things - lol. I also know that they don't 'suit' everyone. From what I hear, they aren't being made anymore so that's a bummer. (Sorry, mine is NOT for sale! Unless you got more money than sense - )
The 'Shakespeare' you found isn't exactly a great deal as far as HF antennas go. They do what they were designed for well, but that certainly wasn't performance.
Hope you find something that works for you.
- 'Doc
)The 'Shakespeare' you found isn't exactly a great deal as far as HF antennas go. They do what they were designed for well, but that certainly wasn't performance.
Hope you find something that works for you.
- 'Doc
SR385,I also run an 8 foot fiberglass whip with a Yaesu FC-40 auto-tuner.It mates perfect with my FT-857 radi
ne word of advise,do NOT use coax cable between the tuner and the antenna.On the higher bands it is not so much a problem but on the lower bands,20m and down, the coax appears as a shunt capacitor to ground in parallel with a very low impedance and will cause a lot of loss.It may be hard to tune also.I mounted my tuner on the inside of the rear door of my '05 Ford Escape right where the antenna mounts to the door. I used a piece of insulated coax braid to go between the tuner and the antenna base.So far so good. It works great but you do notice a big drop in efficiency on 40m and below.
ne word of advise,do NOT use coax cable between the tuner and the antenna.On the higher bands it is not so much a problem but on the lower bands,20m and down, the coax appears as a shunt capacitor to ground in parallel with a very low impedance and will cause a lot of loss.It may be hard to tune also.I mounted my tuner on the inside of the rear door of my '05 Ford Escape right where the antenna mounts to the door. I used a piece of insulated coax braid to go between the tuner and the antenna base.So far so good. It works great but you do notice a big drop in efficiency on 40m and below.Yeah I'm feeding from the tuner with about an 8" piece of 8ga wire straight to the whip. I put decent ring terminators on and heat-shrunk after soldering. The Hustler ball is installed with a 1 3/4" hole drilled into the tub of the Jeep. I've got about 3/4" clearance between the center connection and the sheet metal, should be o.k. for the stock wattage of the 857 I think.
I've pulled the terminal rings so they are both coming off the feeds and into the load at right angles too.
Now I just need the weather to cooperate so I can pull the seats, center console and get my wires nicely tucked away. Add my power feed to the tuner and I'm done....hopefully. I'm waiting to see what the noise level is first before I go really crazy with bonding straps and ferrite...fingers are crossed.
I've pulled the terminal rings so they are both coming off the feeds and into the load at right angles too.
Now I just need the weather to cooperate so I can pull the seats, center console and get my wires nicely tucked away. Add my power feed to the tuner and I'm done....hopefully. I'm waiting to see what the noise level is first before I go really crazy with bonding straps and ferrite...fingers are crossed.
Sounds like you are doing it right. Some will argue about even using wire instead of flat braid between the tuner and antenna but the big thing is to not use coax. I was going to mention about the ball mount clearance but it looks like you have that looked after as well. On some bands high voltages can develope and actually arc from the ball mount to the sheet metal. I have never seen it myself but there are lots of claims as to that on some ham sites I visit.
- No one is chatting at the moment.