Hey Mack, you haven't got a clue what was known or not in the 30's and what is right or wrong...when you have your ear tuned to the Great Deceiver.
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5/8wave vs .64wave
- Thread starter bob85
- Start date
Hey Mack, you haven't got a clue what was known or not in the 30's and what is right or wrong...when you have your ear tuned to the Great Deceiver.
B
BOOTY MONSTER
Guest
ok guys im not gonna agrue which is best . but isnt the famous penatrator 500
a .64 wl antenna? on which the I10k was started from?thats what i thought
maybe im wrong
a .64 wl antenna? on which the I10k was started from?thats what i thought
maybe im wrong
TELEX/HYGAIN's own advertising called it a 5/8 wave. Maybe thats cause no one back in the day knew what .64 wave was. In fact I never heard the term until the last year
(Since 5/8 = .625, thats so close to .64 probably not worth arguing about)
Let's stir the pot a little bit per say.
Can any one give an example of a .64 WL commercially produced amateur antenna for any band?
Next question if .64 WL is more gain that .625 then why is there no commercially made .64 wl co-linear antennas?
After reading MC post I believe he hit it on the nail head.
Leave it at .625 and do not push the envelope.
No one will ever see the difference on their receive S meter comparing a .64 wl to a .625 wl.
Can any one give an example of a .64 WL commercially produced amateur antenna for any band?
Next question if .64 WL is more gain that .625 then why is there no commercially made .64 wl co-linear antennas?
After reading MC post I believe he hit it on the nail head.
Leave it at .625 and do not push the envelope.
No one will ever see the difference on their receive S meter comparing a .64 wl to a .625 wl.
I just finished reading the old thread about eznec by ctstallion and noticed on those models that there is about 1/2 db more gain on the 64 over the 5/8 at about 5 degrees lower angle, (32 vs 27 degrees) and about the same 1/2 db gain on the 64 over the sigma4 - vector at 27 degrees. Isn't there a possibility that much gain at that higher angle could be helpful under certain conditions?
I don't understand why people rave about 2/5 a db when its in favor of the sigma4 or vector but ignore it and say to go with the weaker antenna even though it's 1/2 a db between the 5/8 and 64:blink:
At 10 degrees the 5/8 and 64 look almost equal but everything isn't at low angle. That's why serious dxing hams have several beams up at different heigths so they can pick the right angle for the conditions. If everything was low angel they wouldn't need more than one up real high.
At 10 degrees the sigma4 or vector model shows 2.79db where the 64 shows 2.42db, a hair more than only 1/3db. Is that some big deal? But at 27 degrees it shows about 2.75db for the vector, about 2.5db for the 5/8 and 3.37db for the 64 and that makes the 64 stronger by more than 1/2 a db then both the sigma4 - vector or 5/8 at an angle useful for other higher angle needs, so why talk about it like it isn't any different than a 5/8 or isn't beneficial when less than that amount is such a big deal on the vector - sigma4?
And if 6-7 inches difference between the 5/8 and 64 doesn't even matter then try tuning your 5/8 maco or i10k for flat swr then extend it 6-7 inches longer and see if there isn't any difference
Seems like everyone wants to hate the 64
I like my radio shack 64 after I rewound the cheap coil in the bottom with bigger 12g wire when I blew it up with only a 300w skipper amp
It seems to hear better and transmit better than alot of other stations around here
I don't understand why people rave about 2/5 a db when its in favor of the sigma4 or vector but ignore it and say to go with the weaker antenna even though it's 1/2 a db between the 5/8 and 64:blink:
At 10 degrees the 5/8 and 64 look almost equal but everything isn't at low angle. That's why serious dxing hams have several beams up at different heigths so they can pick the right angle for the conditions. If everything was low angel they wouldn't need more than one up real high.
At 10 degrees the sigma4 or vector model shows 2.79db where the 64 shows 2.42db, a hair more than only 1/3db. Is that some big deal? But at 27 degrees it shows about 2.75db for the vector, about 2.5db for the 5/8 and 3.37db for the 64 and that makes the 64 stronger by more than 1/2 a db then both the sigma4 - vector or 5/8 at an angle useful for other higher angle needs, so why talk about it like it isn't any different than a 5/8 or isn't beneficial when less than that amount is such a big deal on the vector - sigma4?
And if 6-7 inches difference between the 5/8 and 64 doesn't even matter then try tuning your 5/8 maco or i10k for flat swr then extend it 6-7 inches longer and see if there isn't any difference
Seems like everyone wants to hate the 64
I like my radio shack 64 after I rewound the cheap coil in the bottom with bigger 12g wire when I blew it up with only a 300w skipper amp
It seems to hear better and transmit better than alot of other stations around here
Link to wolfe radio antennas, I do not see any amateur antennas advertised, it says 11 meter antennas for all the ground plane antennas listed on the site.
Wolf Radio.com CB, Ham, Pirate Radio, Antennas and Transmitters [Antenna TOC]
B
BOOTY MONSTER
Guest
here's the thread Needle Bender is referring to .
http://www.worldwidedx.com/cb-anten...ur-favorite-citizens-band-radio-antennas.html
and heres some of the graphs from it .
maybe i'm not looking at something right , but the sigma seems to show more gain lower on the horizon than the 5/8 and .64 . the 5/8 and .64 do have more gain at a higher TOA though . FWIU a lower TOA is is better for longer distance ground wave or LOS
*******
"I just finished reading the old thread about eznec by ctstallion and noticed on those models that there is about 1/2 db more gain on the 64 over the 5/8 at about 5 degrees lower angle, (32 vs 27 degrees) and about the same 1/2 db gain on the 64 over the sigma4 - vector at 27 degrees. Isn't there a possibility that much gain at that higher angle could be helpful under certain conditions?"
*******
i would think yes . but how often do those certain conditions happen ? if its a majority of the time the the .64 would seem to be better . if its a minority of the time then no . i think the 1 db or needles worth of gain or loss is not worth arguing over . change the installation/location and another antenna may be best . try wiggling your RF gain control back-n-forth enough to move one needles worth or 1 s-unit and see how much difference it doesn't make . i think a lower TOA has more chance of making a far away contact than adding 1/2 a db of gain at a 19-22 degree higher TOA .
any idea what the increase in db gain at 10 degrees the vector has over the 5/8 or .64 ?
looking at the graph is seems to be several times the distance the 1/2 db is on the 5/8 .64 at 28-32 degree TOA .
but like i said ........ maybe i'm not looking at something right
http://www.worldwidedx.com/cb-anten...ur-favorite-citizens-band-radio-antennas.html
and heres some of the graphs from it .
maybe i'm not looking at something right , but the sigma seems to show more gain lower on the horizon than the 5/8 and .64 . the 5/8 and .64 do have more gain at a higher TOA though . FWIU a lower TOA is is better for longer distance ground wave or LOS
*******
"I just finished reading the old thread about eznec by ctstallion and noticed on those models that there is about 1/2 db more gain on the 64 over the 5/8 at about 5 degrees lower angle, (32 vs 27 degrees) and about the same 1/2 db gain on the 64 over the sigma4 - vector at 27 degrees. Isn't there a possibility that much gain at that higher angle could be helpful under certain conditions?"
*******
i would think yes . but how often do those certain conditions happen ? if its a majority of the time the the .64 would seem to be better . if its a minority of the time then no . i think the 1 db or needles worth of gain or loss is not worth arguing over . change the installation/location and another antenna may be best . try wiggling your RF gain control back-n-forth enough to move one needles worth or 1 s-unit and see how much difference it doesn't make . i think a lower TOA has more chance of making a far away contact than adding 1/2 a db of gain at a 19-22 degree higher TOA .
any idea what the increase in db gain at 10 degrees the vector has over the 5/8 or .64 ?
looking at the graph is seems to be several times the distance the 1/2 db is on the 5/8 .64 at 28-32 degree TOA .
but like i said ........ maybe i'm not looking at something right
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here's the thread Needle Bender is referring to .
http://www.worldwidedx.com/cb-anten...ur-favorite-citizens-band-radio-antennas.html
and heres some of the graphs from it .
maybe i'm not looking at something right , but the sigma seems to show more gain lower on the horizon than the 5/8 and .64 . the 5/8 and .64 do have more gain at a higher TOA though . FWIU a lower TOA is is better for longer distance ground wave or LOS
*******
"I just finished reading the old thread about eznec by ctstallion and noticed on those models that there is about 1/2 db more gain on the 64 over the 5/8 at about 5 degrees lower angle, (32 vs 27 degrees) and about the same 1/2 db gain on the 64 over the sigma4 - vector at 27 degrees. Isn't there a possibility that much gain at that higher angle could be helpful under certain conditions?"
*******
i would think yes . but how often do those certain conditions happen ? if its a majority of the time the the .64 would seem to be better . if its a minority of the time then no . i think the 1 db or needles worth of gain or loss is not worth arguing over . change the installation/location and another antenna may be best . try wiggling your RF gain control back-n-forth enough to move one needles worth or 1 s-unit and see how much difference it doesn't make . i think a lower TOA has more chance of making a far away contact than adding 1/2 a db of gain at a 19-22 degree higher TOA .
any idea what the increase in db gain at 10 degrees the vector has over the 5/8 or .64 ?
looking at the graph is seems to be several times the distance the 1/2 db is on the 5/8 .64 at 28-32 degree TOA .
but like i said ........ maybe i'm not looking at something right
ctstalion said the 64 was 2.42 db at 10 degrees and the sigma4-vector was 2.79 db. like I said, a hair more than 1/3 a db or .37 of a db so no signifacant difference according to alot of posts that all but say a half db is next to nothing. like I said I really like my rebiult radio shack64. after I fugured out how to rebuild the coil in the bottom I gave the imax away because the 64 had alot better receive and stronger transmit. the imax was real noisey to
It will always return to whether your expectations in a certain antenna are met. To whom, and to where do you want to talk. Where the lobes are make a difference based on those expectations.
This is a vertical antenna discussion, but there are innumerable times when my homemade V4k works better than my 4 element Yagi, and the other way around, too.
I can't provide the answer definitively for whether the .64 is better than the .625, but I can say that there are times when one antenna with inferior specs will do better than one with better specs, and certainly vice-versa.
This is a vertical antenna discussion, but there are innumerable times when my homemade V4k works better than my 4 element Yagi, and the other way around, too.
I can't provide the answer definitively for whether the .64 is better than the .625, but I can say that there are times when one antenna with inferior specs will do better than one with better specs, and certainly vice-versa.
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That site has not been managed for a couple 3 years now, Eddie Chicone is MIA.
I and Marconi have a version of his original .64 gp with the dual rings, mine is for sale but I will not be forced to give it away as it sits very well in it's original shipping box in the rafters of my Freekin Ca hole.