alot of consevatives despise socailisum,,but ,,if it wasnt for socailisum ''mixed'' with capitalisum our country would be no better off than russia..if it wasnt for the socailestic polices in the U.S. of the GI,,bill..school grants for kids,,wellfare for poor,,there would be no spending power of the masses an you,d be left with the rich controlling everthing an basicly the USA losing its standing as the biggest market country in the world an the USA would revert into a feudal society....
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a case for socailisum..
- Thread starter Splash1
- Start date
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W1R3T4P
Guest
The only socialism here in the USA, that I'd have no objection to is in the medical field. Socialized healthcare where everyone.....rich and poor, would recieve equal care, not what you could afford. Higher education would be another. LOL @ W1R3T4P
.......I think that would happen if medical costs are not brought back down to earth (10 dollars per Tylenol, hospital rooms costing as much as a 4 star hotel rooms per day,ect.). Mabye the Gov. could step in and put a cap on all that, making costs more reasonable (mabye harm in this, due to drug companies not having the incentive for research....less money to be made?). If I remember right, Canada has a form of socialized medical....I could be wrong. Mabye some of our Canadian friends can chime in, and let us know, and if it works out.C W Morse said:
I tend to agree with CWM in some ways here. Many countries that have fully socialized medicine also have the highest tax rates. I'm blessed to be in good health, but it would not seem like a blessing to pay dearly for something I hardly used.
Before Insurance and Medicare and Lawsuits (which leads to malpractice Insurance), healthcare was somewhat affordable and people didn't abuse the system because it came out of their own pocket. I worked in a pharmacy for years and I saw a lot of abuse. People abusing government programs, doctors and patients abusing insurance, etc. It is a cycle. Drugs are too expensive because they know insurance will pay for it, Insurance is expensive because they know employers pay most of it, and people can't afford to go without because prices keep getting artificially raised. If it weren't for Insurance and government programs, drug companies would lower their prices, or no one would buy the drugs. Drug companies WOULD lower prices, they wouldn't be making record profits like now, but they would make no profit if they left prices high and didn't sell any product.
Similarly, before all this "everyone should be allowed to go to college" crap, tuitions didn't rise every year to new heights to milk the government grants and student loans. People shouldn't be told they are entitled to this stuff, they should earn it. They can earn it through excelling in a sport, working hard for good grades, or work their way through school (if it were still affordable).
Welfare and minimum wage are two other crocks that I don't have time to go into right now.
Financial power is with the masses. Companies know that. Few companies get by with selling outrageously priced products to very few customers (exotic cars), but some of the most successful businesses cater to the masses at a cost the masses can afford (early Fords and more recently Wal-mart). The market will adapt to keep things even. If people can afford more, companies will charge more; if people can't afford it anymore, companies will charge less. If you think that institutions being able to charge the government (through medicare, grants, or other socialized programs) inflated prices keeps the rich (insurance, hospitals, schools, etc) from getting richer, you are wrong.
I guess what I'm getting at with this rambling is that the solution is not more entitlement and opportunities to screw the system at other's expense. A solution would be to get back to traditional values where one is rewarded for their own merit.
Before Insurance and Medicare and Lawsuits (which leads to malpractice Insurance), healthcare was somewhat affordable and people didn't abuse the system because it came out of their own pocket. I worked in a pharmacy for years and I saw a lot of abuse. People abusing government programs, doctors and patients abusing insurance, etc. It is a cycle. Drugs are too expensive because they know insurance will pay for it, Insurance is expensive because they know employers pay most of it, and people can't afford to go without because prices keep getting artificially raised. If it weren't for Insurance and government programs, drug companies would lower their prices, or no one would buy the drugs. Drug companies WOULD lower prices, they wouldn't be making record profits like now, but they would make no profit if they left prices high and didn't sell any product.
Similarly, before all this "everyone should be allowed to go to college" crap, tuitions didn't rise every year to new heights to milk the government grants and student loans. People shouldn't be told they are entitled to this stuff, they should earn it. They can earn it through excelling in a sport, working hard for good grades, or work their way through school (if it were still affordable).
Welfare and minimum wage are two other crocks that I don't have time to go into right now.
Financial power is with the masses. Companies know that. Few companies get by with selling outrageously priced products to very few customers (exotic cars), but some of the most successful businesses cater to the masses at a cost the masses can afford (early Fords and more recently Wal-mart). The market will adapt to keep things even. If people can afford more, companies will charge more; if people can't afford it anymore, companies will charge less. If you think that institutions being able to charge the government (through medicare, grants, or other socialized programs) inflated prices keeps the rich (insurance, hospitals, schools, etc) from getting richer, you are wrong.
I guess what I'm getting at with this rambling is that the solution is not more entitlement and opportunities to screw the system at other's expense. A solution would be to get back to traditional values where one is rewarded for their own merit.
Here in Canada we do have a form of socialized medicine in that any and all doctors visits and hospital visits are free. There is no charge at all for any health care provided in a hospital. We do NOT get free medications outside of hospital stays and dental services as a lot of folks think. Children under 12 (maybe 10) have free routine dental care but not special procedures. We all should have a private medical plan as that is what pays for medications and dental as well as eye glasses and certain prosthetics.All in all it is a good deal even if we are taxed heavily for it. I believe two children born at the region's foremost maternity hospital,one of which had complications as well as some surgeries performed have paid me back whatever I was taxed so far.We like to bitch and moan about the taxes but a good hospital stay will enlighten you. BTW my wife is a nurse so I hear al the horror stories about what things would cost without free health care.I believe our prices are much lower than in the USA because health care is not a for profit business and as a result everyone gets treated according to their needs not according to their bank account.
I've heard a few horror stories about long lines awaiting treatment under socialized medicine, and so forth. I suspect free care would also cause more people to go in for unimportant or frivolous things, at the first sign of getting a sniffle or something. I don't think it's for the best.
Medical costs are ridiculous however, it's what the market will bear, so it's what they charge. If the market couldn't support the current pricing structure, either the price would have to go down to a price the market could support.
Medical costs are ridiculous however, it's what the market will bear, so it's what they charge. If the market couldn't support the current pricing structure, either the price would have to go down to a price the market could support.
Quote: "I tend to agree with CWM in some ways here. Many countries that have fully socialized medicine also have the highest tax rates. I'm blessed to be in good health, but it would not seem like a blessing to pay dearly for something I hardly used." .....I understand about the taxes.....but being blessed with good health can change in the blink of an eye. .......Quote: "Similarly, before all this "everyone should be allowed to go to college" crap, tuitions didn't rise every year to new heights to milk the government grants and student loans. People shouldn't be told they are entitled to this stuff, they should earn it. They can earn it through excelling in a sport, working hard for good grades, or work their way through school (if it were still affordable)." ........Mabye not everyone, but anyone who can't afford it, and not a jock, or one with physical problems. .....Quote: "If you think that institutions being able to charge the government (through medicare, grants, or other socialized programs) inflated prices keeps the rich (insurance, hospitals, schools, etc) from getting richer, you are wrong."..........As long as we as a people let it happen, it will. Changes can be made, but it takes more than just a few. It seems that what your saying, by being wrong means there's no point in trying, You post alot of links to political issues for the purpose of knowlege. Knowlege is power......put the power to use, or at least try. You mentioned being rewarded for thier own merit.....that's kind of a broad area, what type of merit should be rewarded....and who would decide?
PLUTO said:
Mabey you could show me some of these alleged posts. I feel that I rarely post about political issues.
One big problem here is with ins charges. The medical field seems to like to take advantage of the ins. companies. They ask if you have ins or not. Most of what I have heard is there are different charges that result higher if the ins. company is footing the bill. Happens this way in a lot of areas. Problem is that it comes back in higher ins premiums.
health care in this country is a joke. just another responsibility of the individual that government has seen fit to stick their noses into for the benefit of the medical / pharma corporations. government has even gone so far as to declare that you and your family are the property of the state and as such they are in a better position to determine what's best for your health than you are. if you want socialist medicine just stick around a while and hillary will be trying to ram it down our throats once again as the dog and pony show turns tail towards the democratic side of the coin once again.
Gunpoint Medicine and the Abraham Cherrix Story
what you want in terms of health care and what you'll end up with are entirely two different things.
the medical paradigm in this country is so twisted that in the year 2000 the JAMA (which is the most widely circulated medical periodical in the world) published the fact that "Doctors Are The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US, Causing 225,000 Deaths Every Year. if you think that statistic is going to improve via the hillary health plan of socialist medicine then you're sadly mistaken.
let me tell you about my health plan........
my health plan costs me approximately $58.00 a month ($76.00 a month if cancer treatment is involved) and addresses my health care in a pro-active approach that actually makes and keeps me healthy instead of spending (wasting) exorbitant amounts of money in some so-called health system that robs people blind, feeding them pharmaceutical poisons and telling them lies like there's no cure for cancer and other such bullshit while entirely depleting their bank accounts at just about the same time they end up as a corpse.
my health care plan also doesn't involve any unnecessary use of knives or scalpels, life sucking, white blood cell destroying chemotherapy treatments and other such witchcraft or sorcery to keep me in more or less perfect health and most importantly it keeps me out of doctor deaths office and waiting room. i haven't seen a doctor for anything in almost 30 years and won't be anytime soon.
we don't need socialistic medicine, we need to be responsible for our own health. fixing the system isn't the answer, individual independence, personal education and responsibility are the only things that will insure our own health and the health of our loved ones.
Gunpoint Medicine and the Abraham Cherrix Story
what you want in terms of health care and what you'll end up with are entirely two different things.
the medical paradigm in this country is so twisted that in the year 2000 the JAMA (which is the most widely circulated medical periodical in the world) published the fact that "Doctors Are The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US, Causing 225,000 Deaths Every Year. if you think that statistic is going to improve via the hillary health plan of socialist medicine then you're sadly mistaken.
let me tell you about my health plan........
my health plan costs me approximately $58.00 a month ($76.00 a month if cancer treatment is involved) and addresses my health care in a pro-active approach that actually makes and keeps me healthy instead of spending (wasting) exorbitant amounts of money in some so-called health system that robs people blind, feeding them pharmaceutical poisons and telling them lies like there's no cure for cancer and other such bullshit while entirely depleting their bank accounts at just about the same time they end up as a corpse.
my health care plan also doesn't involve any unnecessary use of knives or scalpels, life sucking, white blood cell destroying chemotherapy treatments and other such witchcraft or sorcery to keep me in more or less perfect health and most importantly it keeps me out of doctor deaths office and waiting room. i haven't seen a doctor for anything in almost 30 years and won't be anytime soon.
we don't need socialistic medicine, we need to be responsible for our own health. fixing the system isn't the answer, individual independence, personal education and responsibility are the only things that will insure our own health and the health of our loved ones.