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A vertical is best for working dx?
- Thread starter Turbo T
- Start date
I have all 3 up in the air.. A R7 vertical, 5 element tri band and a end feed wire.. The wire has a quiter recieve (not as much static as the vertical) but the vertical works better for DX than the wire.. Most times the beam is better for DX and other times where the vertical was better is some instances, It depends on the conditions and locations at the time..
Before I got the beam I would use the wire(dipole) for recieve and the R7 for transmit A vertical will pick up 10x the noise compaired to my wire...
And that is my 2 1/2 cents worth
Before I got the beam I would use the wire(dipole) for recieve and the R7 for transmit A vertical will pick up 10x the noise compaired to my wire...
And that is my 2 1/2 cents worth
A vertical with a good groundplane will have a lower angle of radiation than a dipole of any practical height which makes it better for long haul DX. Disadvantages are the groundplane required can be extensive and verticals tend to be noisier on receive than a horizontal dipole.
A lot of factors to consider.
Frequency, height above ground plays a big part in the choice.
If you are talking 10 meters, 28 mhz then a yagi one wl above ground (33')will in most instances outperform the vertical.
Now if you are talking 3.8 mhz 80 meters. 264' above ground is one wl. Sort of hard to do so a vertical will work better than a dipole for DX.
Basically 20 meters and up a yagi at one wave length is a very good DX antenna. even 1/2 wl it will work very good.
40 meters and below in freq it becomes a huge task to get a yagi in the air one wl due to height above ground so a vertical is the next best thing and yes they work real well.
It also depends on what part of the world you want to DX into.
Like I mentioned so many different factors to figure into which is better, the vert or the dipole, or the yagi.
SO just experiment try it and see what you is best for you. Most of all have fun.
Frequency, height above ground plays a big part in the choice.
If you are talking 10 meters, 28 mhz then a yagi one wl above ground (33')will in most instances outperform the vertical.
Now if you are talking 3.8 mhz 80 meters. 264' above ground is one wl. Sort of hard to do so a vertical will work better than a dipole for DX.
Basically 20 meters and up a yagi at one wave length is a very good DX antenna. even 1/2 wl it will work very good.
40 meters and below in freq it becomes a huge task to get a yagi in the air one wl due to height above ground so a vertical is the next best thing and yes they work real well.
It also depends on what part of the world you want to DX into.
Like I mentioned so many different factors to figure into which is better, the vert or the dipole, or the yagi.
SO just experiment try it and see what you is best for you. Most of all have fun.
Tough Question and Answer.
I like the Vertical in many cases.
However a Beam can do better in cases as well.
If you have the room..All 3 is the Best way ( LOL )
I like the Vertical in many cases.
However a Beam can do better in cases as well.
If you have the room..All 3 is the Best way ( LOL )
Yes and No..
at 10 meters...
my old ( now defunct thanks to hurricane sandy)Interceptor I-10K
did as well as any beam 3 or 4 elements.
if you have the room for a minimum of 4 (surely 5 or more)
then the beam likely does better.
Rejection of noise from other directions is good for the beam of course
at 10 meters...
my old ( now defunct thanks to hurricane sandy)Interceptor I-10K
did as well as any beam 3 or 4 elements.
if you have the room for a minimum of 4 (surely 5 or more)
then the beam likely does better.
Rejection of noise from other directions is good for the beam of course
There really isn't any -one- antenna that's always 'best' for DX. It always depends on propagation and the antenna's environment. A simple choice in polarization isn't always a deciding factor. If you've ever had both a horizontal antenna and a vertical antenna up at the same time and have been able to switch between them, you will have seen that at times either of the two may be the 'best' at specific instances. The signal coming up on one as it's fading out on the other is quite common. Simply a change in the propagation characteristics of the band of use at any particular time.
Fixating on one particular characteristic of an antenna isn't the best idea. The take-off angle is a good example of that. TOAs are variable, the lowest isn't always the 'best'. Signals can arrive at quite a few 'angles', not always the lowest. That's also a property of propagation, and limiting your self to only 'angle' means you can miss signals arriving at other angles (or they may be weaker).
If it's a matter of only being able to use one or the other, horizontal or vertically polarized, 'averaging' which of the two is most common for your particular situation is probably the thing to do, and using that type antenna. That requires some time to do that 'averaging' and having both type antennas to see which is most usable for you. I would also expect that 'best' polarized antenna to change over a longer period of time.
And then it comes down to which type would be most practical for you to put up. I think that is probably the deciding factor in a lot (most?) cases. I know that I've been in circumstances that either of those choices, horizontal or vertical, antennas has been impossible to have for some reason.
Oh well. You do what you can and don't worry about it... unless you just like to worry?
- 'Doc
Fixating on one particular characteristic of an antenna isn't the best idea. The take-off angle is a good example of that. TOAs are variable, the lowest isn't always the 'best'. Signals can arrive at quite a few 'angles', not always the lowest. That's also a property of propagation, and limiting your self to only 'angle' means you can miss signals arriving at other angles (or they may be weaker).
If it's a matter of only being able to use one or the other, horizontal or vertically polarized, 'averaging' which of the two is most common for your particular situation is probably the thing to do, and using that type antenna. That requires some time to do that 'averaging' and having both type antennas to see which is most usable for you. I would also expect that 'best' polarized antenna to change over a longer period of time.
And then it comes down to which type would be most practical for you to put up. I think that is probably the deciding factor in a lot (most?) cases. I know that I've been in circumstances that either of those choices, horizontal or vertical, antennas has been impossible to have for some reason.
Oh well. You do what you can and don't worry about it... unless you just like to worry?
- 'Doc
If I was on an island DXpedition, and by the sea, I wouldn't consider anything other than a vertical. If I was building a high performance competition station then from 40m and up I wouldn't consider anything other than yagi's, however for 80 and 160m I wouldn't contemplate anything other than phased vertical arrays, that's not to say there aren't competion stations using yagis for 80 and 160m, but the money involved with such is beyond the pale :blink:
This is a tough one.... I have used both in the last 20 years on being on radios. I see that the 5/8 wave vertical has a lower angle of radiation, but the dipole has a higher gain.... from my experience.... there are too many factors to weigh in to say one out performs the other with ease. I have worked tons of DX with both and im currently using a vertical now.
Conditions here have been horrible.
I needed to get one of my antennas on the ground for a little modification, so I put together another EFHW and mounted it above the 4 element Yagi I had put back together. In a small window of fair weather I put them in the air Tuesday afternoon.
Today the conditions were worse if anything, however, in the moments they opened up I was able to make 5 Hawaiian contacts, and 3 West Coast contacts.
Neither the Merlin, nor the EFHW could even hear 4 of the contacts I made, and the other four were so far into the noise floor I could not pull them out.
When I considered putting something up while I reworked a part of the 5/8 GP, and a few other chores I had no problem deciding for the Yagi. I had gotten weary of being unable to work DX and was on the verge of DX DTs.
I know different places and different conditions can require different approaches, but my experience is like Robb's - The Yagi has been the most consistent performer with respect to DX.
I needed to get one of my antennas on the ground for a little modification, so I put together another EFHW and mounted it above the 4 element Yagi I had put back together. In a small window of fair weather I put them in the air Tuesday afternoon.
Today the conditions were worse if anything, however, in the moments they opened up I was able to make 5 Hawaiian contacts, and 3 West Coast contacts.
Neither the Merlin, nor the EFHW could even hear 4 of the contacts I made, and the other four were so far into the noise floor I could not pull them out.
When I considered putting something up while I reworked a part of the 5/8 GP, and a few other chores I had no problem deciding for the Yagi. I had gotten weary of being unable to work DX and was on the verge of DX DTs.
I know different places and different conditions can require different approaches, but my experience is like Robb's - The Yagi has been the most consistent performer with respect to DX.
Horizontal takes advantage of ground reflection gain which a vertical does not have. Also the old theory about a vertical being better for DX probably comes from hams on the lower bands like 160, 80 and maybe 40m where a simple ground mounted vertical with a decent ground plane will usually outperform any horizontal wire on long haul DX because it has a lower angle of radiation. Most antennas for those bands cannot be put up high enough in a horizontal configuration to have any low angle radiation.
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