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Ain't this the Truth
- Thread starter lords
- Start date
lords said:
thats a well written article, but obvious they didnt read..http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Wireless/Orders/2000/da001907.txt
its a response to a petition to amend 95.413 to permit communications beyond 250 kilometers. one of the main arguments against changing the rule was changing CB "to an examination-free amateur radio-type service".
Although nobody has ever been fined for talking more than 250 kilometers. Fines always result from interference complaints caused by transmitter excessive power.
This cb mag dude has been a breath of fresh air around here . has brought some good stuff to the table the short time he has been here. Much welcomed by me.
Unit 194 said:
Why? CB Radio is, and always HAS been intended for
short-ranged, personal communications. It was created in an era when cellphones, computers, fax, email were only in a Dick Tracy cartoon (anybody remember that?) It has been replaced both officially, and in the public eye, as an out-of date, ancient "toy".
It will NEVER get anything else with regard to "extra" channels, relaxation of the Part 95 rules, nor will it be allowed to compete with the Amateur Radio Service with respect to "hobby" communications! Everything Cbers covet ALREADY exists in the Amateur Radio Service!I know it sounds "harsh", but the official view is, and always HAS been, the general public as a whole will not have the actual knowledge how to OPERATE long-distance communications without creating huge interference to other users[/u]. Witness how CB sounds on a day when conditions are good: "SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, HOOOOOOOWLLLLLL, ROOOOOAAAAAAAAR, SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" It is caused by thousands of untrained appliance operators "shooting skip". That's the reason for the 4 watt limit. SURE! We can't help conditions, BUT! We don't HAVE to work hundreds of miles away-----same as your car will do 100, but you are not FORCED to do it! So if everyone drives at 55-60, it is "safer" because ALL the traffic is moving at the same pace AND the IMPACT, if any, is less should they get together. Same with the radio waves; at a lower "speed", the impact on other users is less! 8) .
What those who actually KNOW how RF works want is for radio users to LEARN at least a little about how their equipment works and how it impacts OTHER users of the spectrum. THAT is one of the reasons for the Amateur Radio Service: training, professionalism, service, ambassadorial representation of the country, and hobby. In exchange, the licensed amatuer, garnering pride in his accomplishments in amateur radio, GETS thousands of frequencies, plenty of power, and rewards/satisfaction from being of service to others. He learns how to make his OWN antennas. He learns how to figure how long they need to be. He learns the formulas for various circuits, and learns to make certain repairs as his knowledge advances. The "channels", the knowledge, the public service,and the FUN make CB Radio seem like a Model T---stuck in the mud, radios that haven't truly advanced (and it's not going to) since 1958---and PALE in comparison!
Yes, it might sound "insulting", but it is only the actual truth of the matter. What the Cber WANTS is already THERE within Amateur Radio. And that's why CB is "stuck in the mud" and will remain so! It's not an insult; it's just the facts as they stand!
All and all, FCC isn't so "bad". If anything, I would wish for MORE actual enforcement of the rules for CB, the elimination of "export" radios (because they permit outlaws to filch the ham bands :x ), and a Congress that would restore funding for this purpose!
73
CWM
C W Morse said:Unit 194 said:
Why? CB Radio is, and always HAS been intended for
short-ranged, personal communications. It was created in an era when cellphones, computers, fax, email were only in a Dick Tracy cartoon (anybody remember that?) It has been replaced both officially, and in the public eye, as an out-of date, ancient "toy".
I know it sounds "harsh", but the official view is, and always HAS been, the general public as a whole will not have the actual knowledge how to OPERATE long-distance communications without creating huge interference to other users[/u]. Witness how CB sounds on a day when conditions are good: "SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, HOOOOOOOWLLLLLL, ROOOOOAAAAAAAAR, SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" It is caused by thousands of untrained appliance operators "shooting skip". That's the reason for the 4 watt limit. SURE! We can't help conditions, BUT! We don't HAVE to work hundreds of miles away-----same as your car will do 100, but you are not FORCED to do it! So if everyone drives at 55-60, it is "safer" because ALL the traffic is moving at the same pace AND the IMPACT, if any, is less should they get together. Same with the radio waves; at a lower "speed", the impact on other users is less! 8) .
What those who actually KNOW how RF works want is for radio users to LEARN at least a little about how their equipment works and how it impacts OTHER users of the spectrum. THAT is one of the reasons for the Amateur Radio Service: training, professionalism, service, ambassadorial representation of the country, and hobby. In exchange, the licensed amatuer, garnering pride in his accomplishments in amateur radio, GETS thousands of frequencies, plenty of power, and rewards/satisfaction from being of service to others. He learns how to make his OWN antennas. He learns how to figure how long they need to be. He learns the formulas for various circuits, and learns to make certain repairs as his knowledge advances. The "channels", the knowledge, the public service,and the FUN make CB Radio seem like a Model T---stuck in the mud, radios that haven't truly advanced (and it's not going to) since 1958---and PALE in comparison!
Yes, it might sound "insulting", but it is only the actual truth of the matter. What the Cber WANTS is already THERE within Amateur Radio. And that's why CB is "stuck in the mud" and will remain so! It's not an insult; it's just the facts as they stand!
All and all, FCC isn't so "bad". If anything, I would wish for MORE actual enforcement of the rules for CB, the elimination of "export" radios (because they permit outlaws to filch the ham bands :x ), and a Congress that would restore funding for this purpose!
73
CWM
Talk about being "stuck in the mud"!
Your ARRL anti-CB propaganda is getting a bit old!!!!
Witness how CB sounds on a day when conditions are good: "SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, HOOOOOOOWLLLLLL, ROOOOOAAAAAAAAR
What CB You runnin CW. My radio's don't do that. Clean and no Splatter on Skip, clean Recieve! Maybe someone needs to Teach You to setup a CB.
Doug S.
What CB You runnin CW. My radio's don't do that. Clean and no Splatter on Skip, clean Recieve! Maybe someone needs to Teach You to setup a CB.
Doug S.
CWM[/quote]
Talk about being "stuck in the mud"!
Your ARRL anti-CB propaganda is getting a bit old!!!![/quote]
I'm not a member of ARRL. I am telling you the actual reasons AND the truth of the matter. All one has to do is make a reasonable comparison between the two.
CB: 40 channels AM and SSB. All that is allowed. Yet the users of it squirm and wriggle looking for "extra channels" that don't belong to them. They make excuses as to why they "need" to go into a so-called "freeband", and ignore the laws that prohibit it.
Ham: TEN HF bands + MARS( if one likes to participate in it) of THOUSANDS what CBers call "channels" (frequencies) with AM, Upper and Lower SSB, FM [on 10 Meters], repeaters, packet, teletype, Pactor, Morse Code. Then there's 2 Meters, 440 MHZ, all modes with the same options listed above. And there's 6 Meters (50 MHZ)--also with repeaters, AM, FM, SSB and all the same other modes as well.
CB: There's never enough "watts"! Watts, watts, watts, watts, the all-encompassing mantra! It is MO' powah, mo' mod-ju-lation, louder and louder, all controls to the right. The users, for the most part have NO idea what they are doing; their buddy Joe over at the CB shop told 'em how to run that there "box", and "if I double my power, I'll get twice the distance and twice the signal." NOT!
Ham: Up TO 1500 watts. BUT! Hams are taught and encouraged to run ONLY the amount of power necessary to establish and maintain communications. If it TAKES 1500 watts because of conditions, fine so long as you are not causing interference both IN and outside of amateur radio. If everybody else is running 100 watts, and Bob Ham is always running 1500, then he CAN get a warning or even a fine. All hams are supposed to operate under a principle of "good amateur practice" which does not mean that it's OK to run gobs of power just because you WANT to! Part of what the powers that be want us do is learn something about how our operations affect others. It is the difference between an "appliance operator", and a REAL radio operator!
Trouble is, many people only want everything handed over without exerting any effort at all. Amateur testing has been reduced hugely over the years, and yet, we STILL don't want to lift a finger to EARN anything or LEARN anything. We only say, "Gimme, gimme, gimme". I don't care if I bother someone in
Pheonix, In fact, it makes me feel GOOD that I "walked all over someone else". (See 'stomping mudducks') What inadequacy does such behavior make up for, gentlemen? The TRAINED radio person simply QSY's to another frequency, or, hearing nothing, "IS this frequency in use?". Then, if the answer is "yes", then he merely moves away to find another spot to operate.
At times, we bemoan the shenanigans on CB--people singing off-key, whispering "I've got my panties on.........", cussing, fighting over the air, keying up on top of each other, the noise, the hash and trash, and, yet, we never stop to think about WHY it is that way. It is because CB is a totally unregulated free-for-all, available to anyone with a few dollars
(a great mistake). When it fills UP with nonsense because WE ourselves fail to manage it, organize it, recognize HOW to USE it effectively, it simply fills up------YES! With appliance operators[/i] with not a clue! SO! We want MORE of the same, so we can fill up the ADDITIONAL frequencies with hash and trash ("SCREEEEEEEE, HOOOOOOWL, ROOOOOOOOOOOARRR!")!
When we completley FUBAR that, we want yet MORE so we can FUBAR THAT................and so on and so on. It would never end because the operators themselves don't understand what is causing the problem to start with! (MO Powah, Mo 'channels', Mo Modju-la-tion, Mo this, Mo that!) And it won't change a darned thing.
Therefore, those who understand this, went to engineering school to work in it, want us to LEARN how to operate a radio and let the OTHER guy participate, too, without messing HIM up as well. Thus, this is why taking a few tests, actually LEARNING WHY things work the the way they do, makes it better----not perfect, but better than the alternative. It is for those reasons that all the petitions, all the pleas for "extra" channels, all the cries for relaxing CB Part 95 falls, and continue to fall, on deaf ears.
With all one gets in return for a small investment of time, there is no reason to even compare the two, or try to equate 11 Meter CB with amateur radio: the father of ALL radio. When I can take a little walkie talkie that fits in my pocket and talk to the next state (or even a cellphone), and a CB radio even with 500 watts can't do it, technology wins everytime! I can't force the facts to change. It is the way it is.
73 to all,
CWM
Talk about being "stuck in the mud"!
Your ARRL anti-CB propaganda is getting a bit old!!!![/quote]
I'm not a member of ARRL. I am telling you the actual reasons AND the truth of the matter. All one has to do is make a reasonable comparison between the two.
CB: 40 channels AM and SSB. All that is allowed. Yet the users of it squirm and wriggle looking for "extra channels" that don't belong to them. They make excuses as to why they "need" to go into a so-called "freeband", and ignore the laws that prohibit it.
Ham: TEN HF bands + MARS( if one likes to participate in it) of THOUSANDS what CBers call "channels" (frequencies) with AM, Upper and Lower SSB, FM [on 10 Meters], repeaters, packet, teletype, Pactor, Morse Code. Then there's 2 Meters, 440 MHZ, all modes with the same options listed above. And there's 6 Meters (50 MHZ)--also with repeaters, AM, FM, SSB and all the same other modes as well.
CB: There's never enough "watts"! Watts, watts, watts, watts, the all-encompassing mantra! It is MO' powah, mo' mod-ju-lation, louder and louder, all controls to the right. The users, for the most part have NO idea what they are doing; their buddy Joe over at the CB shop told 'em how to run that there "box", and "if I double my power, I'll get twice the distance and twice the signal." NOT!
Ham: Up TO 1500 watts. BUT! Hams are taught and encouraged to run ONLY the amount of power necessary to establish and maintain communications. If it TAKES 1500 watts because of conditions, fine so long as you are not causing interference both IN and outside of amateur radio. If everybody else is running 100 watts, and Bob Ham is always running 1500, then he CAN get a warning or even a fine. All hams are supposed to operate under a principle of "good amateur practice" which does not mean that it's OK to run gobs of power just because you WANT to! Part of what the powers that be want us do is learn something about how our operations affect others. It is the difference between an "appliance operator", and a REAL radio operator!
Trouble is, many people only want everything handed over without exerting any effort at all. Amateur testing has been reduced hugely over the years, and yet, we STILL don't want to lift a finger to EARN anything or LEARN anything. We only say, "Gimme, gimme, gimme". I don't care if I bother someone in
Pheonix, In fact, it makes me feel GOOD that I "walked all over someone else". (See 'stomping mudducks') What inadequacy does such behavior make up for, gentlemen? The TRAINED radio person simply QSY's to another frequency, or, hearing nothing, "IS this frequency in use?". Then, if the answer is "yes", then he merely moves away to find another spot to operate.
At times, we bemoan the shenanigans on CB--people singing off-key, whispering "I've got my panties on.........", cussing, fighting over the air, keying up on top of each other, the noise, the hash and trash, and, yet, we never stop to think about WHY it is that way. It is because CB is a totally unregulated free-for-all, available to anyone with a few dollars
(a great mistake). When it fills UP with nonsense because WE ourselves fail to manage it, organize it, recognize HOW to USE it effectively, it simply fills up------YES! With appliance operators[/i] with not a clue! SO! We want MORE of the same, so we can fill up the ADDITIONAL frequencies with hash and trash ("SCREEEEEEEE, HOOOOOOWL, ROOOOOOOOOOOARRR!")!
When we completley FUBAR that, we want yet MORE so we can FUBAR THAT................and so on and so on. It would never end because the operators themselves don't understand what is causing the problem to start with! (MO Powah, Mo 'channels', Mo Modju-la-tion, Mo this, Mo that!)
And it won't change a darned thing.Therefore, those who understand this, went to engineering school to work in it, want us to LEARN how to operate a radio and let the OTHER guy participate, too, without messing HIM up as well. Thus, this is why taking a few tests, actually LEARNING WHY things work the the way they do, makes it better----not perfect, but better than the alternative. It is for those reasons that all the petitions, all the pleas for "extra" channels, all the cries for relaxing CB Part 95 falls, and continue to fall, on deaf ears.
With all one gets in return for a small investment of time, there is no reason to even compare the two, or try to equate 11 Meter CB with amateur radio: the father of ALL radio. When I can take a little walkie talkie that fits in my pocket and talk to the next state (or even a cellphone), and a CB radio even with 500 watts can't do it, technology wins everytime! I can't force the facts to change. It is the way it is.
73 to all,
CWM
714 said:
I will compete with you any day of the week, setting up any radio station from CB, commercial, to military, to ham, beginning with figuring how long the antenna needs to be using the formulas for same. That includes verticals, dipoles, beams with matching networks, and mobile antenna not forgetting BUILDING and constructing my own loading coils, and I know how to set my "SWR-zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"! Tell me: how many "SWR-ssssssssssssssss" are there in ONE feedline?
I've always wanted to know how an SWR became PLURAL. The howling and squealing comes from what you call "skip" from
thousands of signals beating against one another. It is something, that IF you knew what you were talking about, that cannot be helped. If it is being heard in the receiver, YOU are going to HEAR it. Garbage IN, Garbage OUT and "vice versa" as you say. It is not YOUR radio that can HELP it. It is the "skip" itself that causes the noise.
And, btw, amateur radio uses not only CW, but all modes currently legal in the country(s). That includes AM and SSB.
All you gotta do is L I S T E N on a "skip" day. I DO have a CB, ya know.
CWM
Cb radio is not what it was 30 years ago.
Regardless of what the rules are it has evolved into much more than was ever intended.
When the FCC threw in the towel during the 70`s this is what happened.
There is no way for them to effectively enforce the rules 100% as they stand, and the FCC has proved it time and time again.
The very best they can do is try to enforce a few high profile cases each year...and try to address a few of the most blatant interference cases that are thrust in there faces.
If it was not for the fact that Hams have brought the extent of 10 meter intrusions to the FCC, export radios would not even be of the concern that they are today.
Of the milions of CB radio users that are on the air in the US, less that 1% of them will ever see an enforcment action.
It would take an army of FCC agents to even begin to inspect just the mobile radios on the road today.
For many years we have heard of rumors about how the DOT is going to inspect trucks at weight stations...never happened, never will. No funding, and they allready have there hands full enforcing the DOT laws that are on the books.
Even when Bill Clinton signed into law the bill that gave Local Police limited authority to enforce local laws regarding Cb, it had very little effect.
Congress will not even properly fund social security, or the health care system in this country, the thought that they will spend more money on Cb enforcment is out of the question.
And I am aware of not one case that has ever been brought about on the 152 mile rule.....
Now having said this, I do agree that if a person wants to expand beyond the small section of HF that the Cb band is in, the the very best thing that they can do is study and take the test, and become a ham. So much more of HF, VHF,UHF and beyond is there for the taking with a simple test.
But to think that the FCC is going to wave a magic badge in the air, and fix the 30 year old problems within and around the Cb band....it is not going to happen.
That is My view after 30+ years being around the radio hobby, yours may vari
73
Jeff
Regardless of what the rules are it has evolved into much more than was ever intended.
When the FCC threw in the towel during the 70`s this is what happened.
There is no way for them to effectively enforce the rules 100% as they stand, and the FCC has proved it time and time again.
The very best they can do is try to enforce a few high profile cases each year...and try to address a few of the most blatant interference cases that are thrust in there faces.
If it was not for the fact that Hams have brought the extent of 10 meter intrusions to the FCC, export radios would not even be of the concern that they are today.
Of the milions of CB radio users that are on the air in the US, less that 1% of them will ever see an enforcment action.
It would take an army of FCC agents to even begin to inspect just the mobile radios on the road today.
For many years we have heard of rumors about how the DOT is going to inspect trucks at weight stations...never happened, never will. No funding, and they allready have there hands full enforcing the DOT laws that are on the books.
Even when Bill Clinton signed into law the bill that gave Local Police limited authority to enforce local laws regarding Cb, it had very little effect.
Congress will not even properly fund social security, or the health care system in this country, the thought that they will spend more money on Cb enforcment is out of the question.
And I am aware of not one case that has ever been brought about on the 152 mile rule.....
Now having said this, I do agree that if a person wants to expand beyond the small section of HF that the Cb band is in, the the very best thing that they can do is study and take the test, and become a ham. So much more of HF, VHF,UHF and beyond is there for the taking with a simple test.
But to think that the FCC is going to wave a magic badge in the air, and fix the 30 year old problems within and around the Cb band....it is not going to happen.
That is My view after 30+ years being around the radio hobby, yours may vari
73
Jeff
Even though the purpose of CB is short range in all truthfulness the FCC did consider creating a long distance DX portion of 40 and part of the freeband area at one time. It was strongly fought by the Amateur crowd but it showed the FCC was willing to recognize the change in the practice of CB use.