Ain't this the Truth

[Unit 194]

CWM

Talk about being "stuck in the mud"!

Your ARRL anti-CB propaganda is getting a bit old!!!![/quote]

I'm not a member of ARRL. I am telling you the actual reasons AND the truth of the matter. All one has to do is make a reasonable comparison between the two.

CB: 40 channels AM and SSB. All that is allowed. Yet the users of it squirm and wriggle looking for "extra channels" that don't belong to them. They make excuses as to why they "need" to go into a so-called "freeband", and ignore the laws that prohibit it.

Ham: TEN HF bands + MARS( if one likes to participate in it) of THOUSANDS what CBers call "channels" (frequencies) with AM, Upper and Lower SSB, FM [on 10 Meters], repeaters, packet, teletype, Pactor, Morse Code. Then there's 2 Meters, 440 MHZ, all modes with the same options listed above. And there's 6 Meters (50 MHZ)--also with repeaters, AM, FM, SSB and all the same other modes as well.

CB: There's never enough "watts"! Watts, watts, watts, watts, the all-encompassing mantra! It is MO' powah, mo' mod-ju-lation, louder and louder, all controls to the right. The users, for the most part have NO idea what they are doing; their buddy Joe over at the CB shop told 'em how to run that there "box", and "if I double my power, I'll get twice the distance and twice the signal." NOT!

Ham: Up TO 1500 watts. BUT! Hams are taught and encouraged to run ONLY the amount of power necessary to establish and maintain communications. If it TAKES 1500 watts because of conditions, fine so long as you are not causing interference both IN and outside of amateur radio. If everybody else is running 100 watts, and Bob Ham is always running 1500, then he CAN get a warning or even a fine. All hams are supposed to operate under a principle of "good amateur practice" which does not mean that it's OK to run gobs of power just because you WANT to! Part of what the powers that be want us do is learn something about how our operations affect others. It is the difference between an "appliance operator", and a REAL radio operator!
Trouble is, many people only want everything handed over without exerting any effort at all. Amateur testing has been reduced hugely over the years, and yet, we STILL don't want to lift a finger to EARN anything or LEARN anything. We only say, "Gimme, gimme, gimme". I don't care if I bother someone in
Pheonix, In fact, it makes me feel GOOD that I "walked all over someone else". (See 'stomping mudducks') What inadequacy does such behavior make up for, gentlemen? The TRAINED radio person simply QSY's to another frequency, or, hearing nothing, "IS this frequency in use?". Then, if the answer is "yes", then he merely moves away to find another spot to operate.

At times, we bemoan the shenanigans on CB--people singing off-key, whispering "I've got my panties on.........", cussing, fighting over the air, keying up on top of each other, the noise, the hash and trash, and, yet, we never stop to think about WHY it is that way. It is because CB is a totally unregulated free-for-all, available to anyone with a few dollars
(a great mistake). When it fills UP with nonsense because WE ourselves fail to manage it, organize it, recognize HOW to USE it effectively, it simply fills up------YES! With appliance operators[/i] with not a clue! SO! We want MORE of the same, so we can fill up the ADDITIONAL frequencies with hash and trash ("SCREEEEEEEE, HOOOOOOWL, ROOOOOOOOOOOARRR!")!
When we completley FUBAR that, we want yet MORE so we can FUBAR THAT................and so on and so on. It would never end because the operators themselves don't understand what is causing the problem to start with! (MO Powah, Mo 'channels', Mo Modju-la-tion, Mo this, Mo that!) And it won't change a darned thing.

Therefore, those who understand this, went to engineering school to work in it, want us to LEARN how to operate a radio and let the OTHER guy participate, too, without messing HIM up as well. Thus, this is why taking a few tests, actually LEARNING WHY things work the the way they do, makes it better----not perfect, but better than the alternative. It is for those reasons that all the petitions, all the pleas for "extra" channels, all the cries for relaxing CB Part 95 falls, and continue to fall, on deaf ears.

With all one gets in return for a small investment of time, there is no reason to even compare the two, or try to equate 11 Meter CB with amateur radio: the father of ALL radio. When I can take a little walkie talkie that fits in my pocket and talk to the next state (or even a cellphone), and a CB radio even with 500 watts can't do it, technology wins everytime! I can't force the facts to change. It is the way it is.

73 to all,

CWM[/quote]

Wow !!!!!!!!! You're just another holier-than-thou pompous Amatuer Radio operator.

Thank God I'm a CB'er !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Unit 194]

Witness how CB sounds on a day when conditions are good: "SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, HOOOOOOOWLLLLLL, ROOOOOAAAAAAAAR

What CB You runnin CW. My radio's don't do that. Clean and no Splatter on Skip, clean Recieve! Maybe someone needs to Teach You to setup a CB.
Doug S.

I will compete with you any day of the week, setting up any radio station from CB, commercial, to military, to ham, beginning with figuring how long the antenna needs to be using the formulas for same. That includes verticals, dipoles, beams with matching networks, and mobile antenna not forgetting BUILDING and constructing my own loading coils, and I know how to set my "SWR-zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"! Tell me: how many "SWR-ssssssssssssssss" are there in ONE feedline? I've always wanted to know how an SWR became PLURAL.

The howling and squealing comes from what you call "skip" from
thousands of signals beating against one another. It is something, that IF you knew what you were talking about, that cannot be helped. If it is being heard in the receiver, YOU are going to HEAR it. Garbage IN, Garbage OUT and "vice versa" as you say. It is not YOUR radio that can HELP it. It is the "skip" itself that causes the noise.

And, btw, amateur radio uses not only CW, but all modes currently legal in the country(s). That includes AM and SSB.
All you gotta do is L I S T E N on a "skip" day. I DO have a CB, ya know.

CWM

The only garbage I hear is your anti-CB/CB'er "whiny" rhetoric.

 

[Sonwatcher]

Actually, while amateurs did object, it was NTIA that objected the most.

CWM

That may be true but it shows that the FCC recognized that CB had evolved to a form of hobby use in the "skip talking". In recognizing that they sought to change the rules to accommodate the practice.

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

The only garbage I hear is your anti-CB/CB'er "whiny" rhetoric.

Just one simple little question. When the skip is rolling in,what does your S-meter show for a signal and what sound comes out of your speaker when there is no one individual station occupying the freq.? If you say no meter reading and all is silent either you need to have your RX checked or you are telling an un-truth. (I hate to say lying )

 

[Unit 194]

The only garbage I hear is your anti-CB/CB'er "whiny" rhetoric.

Just one simple little question. When the skip is rolling in,what does your S-meter show for a signal and what sound comes out of your speaker when there is no one individual station occupying the freq.? If you say no meter reading and all is silent either you need to have your RX checked or you are telling an un-truth. (I hate to say lying )

That would all depend on the frequency being used and the mode of TX/RX.

 

[C W Morse]

Actually, while amateurs did object, it was NTIA that objected the most.

CWM

That may be true but it shows that the FCC recognized that CB had evolved to a form of hobby use in the "skip talking". In recognizing that they sought to change the rules to accommodate the practice.

Not really. It wasn't the practice of talking "skip" that was the issue. At that point at which the change was considered, FCC had noted the huge numbers of operators and as concerned about the space, not the distance rule. After all, after any expansion of the rules, operators could STILL ignore the laws regarding the 155 mile rule. Thus, it was the crowding that FCC was seeking to alleviate, not any consideration of allowing "hobby" communications, or concessions to "distance-talking". Under treaties and agreements that were negotiated in order to allow for CB to be even created, there could BE no such accomodation because CB was designated (and still is, really) as a land mobile short ranged communications tool. Then, the revolution in computers, advent of cellphones, etc somewhat remedied the whole situation.

The service in which one is to engage in "hobby" communications is the Amateur Radio Service (we both know that, of course), and CB is STILL a short-ranged, limited capability (and quite outdated when compared to its original purpose), radio "service". For the fellas that can't understand this and only equate my comments with "AAAAAAK! He's bashing CB and CBers", all I am trying to say is, and back to the original topic, the Part 95 Rules are restrictive for a reason. Regardless of what WE think or WANT, CB to be, it is what it is; It will remain the same. For those who wish to engage in DX ("skip"), experiment with equipment, run large amounts of RF power, we are expected to LEARN what effect such operations will have on ourselves and other operators, to prove that we are competent, and know the rules that apply to our operations. Thus, tho they are certainly not perfect, tests are devised to see that operators have basic knowledge of what they are doing. That's why the FCC requires these tests and why Amateurs oppose allowing a basically unregulated radio service the ability to compete with them for the privileges they had to earn.

CWM

 

[Sonwatcher]

it was the crowding that FCC was seeking to alleviate, not any consideration of allowing "hobby" communications, or concessions to "distance-talking".

I differ with you on the details. The FCC sought a passing of long distance communications on CB on a few of the channels above 40. They also were willing to allow them the use of VFO's. They stated a possibility of requiring a non-tech test for this. It was discussed in the 1980's but not passed.

Here it is-

The History Of Amateur Radio

THE WAYBACK MACHINE #34 by Bill Continelli, W2XOY

Other legal and regulatory news dominated the Amateur world at the beginning of 1980. The FCC proposed a new SSB only CB Band from 27.410 MHz (just above CB channel 40) to 27.54 MHz. For this new CB allocation, the FCC proposed removing the 155 mile contact limit (thus allowing DX contacts), as well as permitting VFO’s. A non-technical test would be required for access to the CB-SSB band. Reaction, as you might guess, was strong and divided. HF “outbanders” (who worked the “10 1/2” meter band) were in favor--unlike the 220 MHz “Class E CB” proposal a few years back, they could work skip on this new band. Or, should we say it would legitimize their present operations? The ARRL and the Amateur community were strongly opposed. Many letters in QST pointed out the intrusion of the illegal operators on the “10 1/2” meter band into the bottom part of our 10 meter band. In the end, the proposal was abandoned. The “Freebanders” and “Outbanders” continue to operate the 27.41 to 28 MHz segment to this day.

http://ham-shack.com/history34.html

Notice this was a proposal by the FCC themselves not a private citizen. In considering this proposal they acknowledged the practice and sought to condone it and make accommodations for it in a limited portion of 11 meters.

Just because one may not agree with it doesn't change the fact that outside of Amateur outcry the FCC saw it as something they, as rule makers, were willing to change.

 

[CDX8412]

While there may be 30 years of no change on the CB bands, I think the FCC has tried to reverse-engineer a solution by making ham radio more accessible to radio hobbiests. (yes, much to the chagrin of many long time hams, but that's a discussion better left to the brain trusts over on QRZ.com).

I see the FCC's recent rules change (eliminating the code test) as an opportunity for many CB radio hobbiests to get into amateur radio. Most (not all, but most) CB radio hobbiests I know have found ham radio to be even more fun than CB. While they haven't left CB entirely, they use it for more of it's intended purpose (short range comms) and use the ham bands for DX'ing and experimentation.

There has been a discussion on a MURS newsgroup about how MURS may have been more useful if it had been allowed to be marketed with dual band (CB/MURS) radios. While also unlikely, this is more of where I think rules changes need to occur, in the marketing and combining the license-free (really, license by rule) radio services of CB/MURS/FRS.

Imagine a triband radio capable of operating on the 40 CB channels, the 5 VHF MURS channels, and the 14 FRS channels.
Now your short range radio communications possibilties are fully optimized and marketed to the general public.

In any case, I think the FCC has done something to change CB...by opening up amateur radio to everyone that couldn't (or didn't want to) learn morse code.

 

[SR385]

It was always curious to me that they picked a band that propagates the way that 11m does for short range use. It was also unfortunate that they picked AM as the mode for it.

A higher band like MURS in FM only, or even a UHF segment like Australia uses, would have contained things to short-range as intended a lot better than 27Mhz.

They sort of opened their own can of worms in a lot of ways.

 

[C W Morse]

It was always curious to me that they picked a band that propagates the way that 11m does for short range use. It was also unfortunate that they picked AM as the mode for it.

A higher band like MURS in FM only, or even a UHF segment like Australia uses, would have contained things to short-range as intended a lot better than 27Mhz.

They sort of opened their own can of worms in a lot of ways.

Agreed. However, I think one would have to have lived in that era when people were more inclined to obey authorities and agencies such as FCC. Folks FEARED FCC and, the feds could not have envisioned that it would be any different in 40-50 years, nor that their budget would be cut drastically! If the gov't said dont partake of that "apple tree" (Adam & Eve) or don't talk to stations over 150 miles, you simply DIDN'T do it, AND they WOULD POP you for it!!!

The rest was technology. The equipment was bulky and unreliable. There was already a "Citizens Band up on UHF, but it was not widely accepted and it was considered "exotic". It became the current GMRS. OH! Very expensive, too! It was easir to make cheap, low power HF units, and that's where it ended up. If they had known? Betcha they wouldn't have dunnit! A lot of ills could have been cured if they had put it up on 220 MHZ (yep, the hams would screamed bloody murdy!), but it sure would have made things a lot quieter!

73

CWM

 

[Sonwatcher]

Paul,
You mentioned about a radio containing the free citizen services on one radio. That would be cool. What I don't understand is why they put FRS (unlicensed) with GMRS (licensed) in the same radio. It resembles the very problem with CB and 10 meters on the same radio. The FCC calls these "Dual use" because of they combine a non-licensed service (CB) with a licensed service (Amateur) and call them illegal. I'm not sure where the big difference is. The FRS/GMRS radios have brought about the same problem with unlicensed operators using the licensed frequencies of the GMRS band.

 

[nightwatch]

Actually CW, You may or may not know that not everyone has an interest in "Ham Radio". I set up a CB at home, and in my wifes, and my car for emergency use. We had severe weather here a couple of years ago that knocked out phones (including cell towers) and left everyone without communications. A CB will at least let the wife & I keep in touch. So there's no point in investing the time, effort & money on a hobby (Ham Radio)that's of no interest to me. So you see, CB does in fact have a purpose for those ignorant folks (me) who don't really care about RF theory, transistors, diodes, and all that other jazz that causes radio buffs to get all giddy.
The way I look at it,..CB is a somewhat interesting tool, no more no less...but still a tool!

 

[Cheech]

Paul,
You mentioned about a radio containing the free citizen services on one radio. That would be cool. What I don't understand is why they put FRS (unlicensed) with GMRS (licensed) in the same radio. It resembles the very problem with CB and 10 meters on the same radio. The FCC calls these "Dual use" because of they combine a non-licensed service (CB) with a licensed service (Amateur) and call them illegal. I'm not sure where the big difference is. The FRS/GMRS radios have brought about the same problem with unlicensed operators using the licensed frequencies of the GMRS band.

I find this very funny as well but enforcement is just like CB on GMRS for the most part. Not to mention the cheap HTs realy dont talk that far. I will say one thing though it anoys me that with my amateur licence I still have no privlages on GMRS. I cant say I would use very much anyway but the fact that I had to take a test pertaining to radio and proper use of it and all they had to do was a pay a fee is dumb.

 

[CDX8412]

My understanding of the problem created by having FRS and GMRS intertwined, came about as the result of pressure by the manufacturers to be able to market GMRS/FRS radios.

By selling the dual-use GMRS/FRS radios, the manufacturers can claim 5 mile, 10 mile, 20 mile :shock: radios ! Yeah, right.
Oh yeah, by the way...you need a license to operate your walkie talkie on the channels above ch. 14 but you can talk up to 30 miles :roll:

And yes, it seems logical that an amateur license would give you automatic privileges on GMRS, and even promote GMRS, but then the FCC would lose the opportunity to get that $85 out of your hands. Forget the part about having demonstrated the required knowledge you possess...show me the money.

I think a series of portable and mobile radios that incorporated the license free services would be cool, a benefit to the consumer, and a benefit to those existing services... and for those reasons, we will never see it.

 

[Cheech]

Gota love those distance claims by some of those radios. I want to know where they get some of those crazy distances from :shock: I find it hard to get a mile let alone 10 or 20 with those things.