AM CB Myths???

[BOOTY MONSTER]

dont believe everything you read on the WWW . and just because a ham says something doesnt mean its correct . the WWRF is the best bull chit filter ive found .

its not any one thing that makes a great signal . its a combination of things and balancing them together .

 

[Simbalage22]

Ahh just like the car audio world.. People with their scopes turn the gains down so low that you'll never achieve the max for an amp.. Sometimes you'll achieve some audiable distortion when running power (IE: Increased watts) there is going to also be an increase in distortion... But still the myths of am swing, does anyone have a solid answer... I was believing in the 1/4 of power to be Deadkey and the rest swing



So in plain english whats the best.. setting my deadkey to the max with only a tiny amount of swing?

Or setting the deadkey as low as possible and watching the needle dance all day?

Or is what I learned 1/4 of total power supposed to be deadkey?

 

[mechanic]

Ahh just like the car audio world.. People with their scopes turn the gains down so low that you'll never achieve the max for an amp.. Sometimes you'll achieve some audiable distortion when running power (IE: Increased watts) there is going to also be an increase in distortion... But still the myths of am swing, does anyone have a solid answer... I was believing in the 1/4 of power to be Deadkey and the rest swing

Distortion only works with guitar amps!

Most times amps are not run at max or driven too hard as distortion will happen, if it is in your car then most people will not care unless your rattling widows of people's homes!
In radio, then you would be bothering other users of near channels (frequencies) with over drive and over modulation.... just making noise!
As Booty said it is a balance ....

Power meters are RMS meters and only two dimensional, they cannot show the time element. A scope or vector scope is what is needed for that. Short of these expensive pieces of gear a monitoring station is needed, this can be someone who is not too near just to watch for splatter.
Adjusting for 1/4 of deadkey might be too little as you need some bias for the amp the follow as long as you do not overdrive. An amp is a magnifier of everything your radio puts out!

73 mechanic

 

[Simbalage22]

An amp is a magnifier of everything your radio puts out!

73 mechanic

Isnt this what I just said above a different way? as with car audio if your clipping that clipped signal will be amplified and distored as well. I have seen it myself on a scope setting gains on car audio.. However I am trying to understand this when it comes to a cb (Which I know is Different) but people on the radio say swing is king, and their radios are loud ect... Someone said 1/4 is where it should be and that makes sense, Others like 1/2 which is where my cobra 142 amounts on a meter... 100W deadkey, 200W swing.. But I am trying to understand how deadkey/swing is actually calculated and how it differers from a barefoot radio, to one with an amp... I know it plays a mayjor role in not only how you sound, but how far you'll get out

 

[mechanic]

So in plain english whats the best.. setting my deadkey to the max with only a tiny amount of swing?

Or setting the deadkey as low as possible and watching the needle dance all day?

Or is what I learned 1/4 of total power supposed to be deadkey?

Second part!

Depends on the design of the amp, it's class.... Even the requirement for DC power. Tube amps are still the best but need lots of attention and the tubes are consumables, solid state amps are much easier to use but are picky as they can distort and they can produce squarewaves.
Set the dead key enough to bias the amp, trial and error here, then set the modulation so it will not distort. A fully peaked radio is tough to match to any amp.

73 mechanic

 

[Simbalage22]

Second part!

Depends on the design of the amp, it's class.... Even the requirement for DC power. Tube amps are still the best but need lots of attention and the tubes are consumables, solid state amps are much easier to use but are picky as they can distort and they can produce squarewaves.
Set the dead key enough to bias the amp, trial and error here, then set the modulation so it will not distort. A fully peaked radio is tough to match to any amp.

73 mechanic

Your telling ME!!! LOL... I was on that cobra 25 which has a low little less the 1w deadkey, and it was working better then my base... So thats why I was curious.. PPl Say a swing kit is bad, with this amp its deadkey is about 50w and swinging forward to the max... with my base its 100DK swinging forward and sounds good too... BUT ppl say aside the mic (D104) on the base, the 25 is more powerful..

PS: I dont know about the base, But the cobra 25 is not clipped, just turned up the mod almost to 100%
btw: I am A.D.D so I am really trying to understand the concept for this new hobbie.

Final edit: Thanks so much mechanic, a final question.. Where is a good point to set the radio (Barefoot use) on the DK: I am going to add a switch for barefoot/amp use

 

[mechanic]

Isnt this what I just said above a different way? as with car audio if your clipping that clipped signal will be amplified and distored as well. I have seen it myself on a scope setting gains on car audio.. However I am trying to understand this when it comes to a cb (Which I know is Different) but people on the radio say swing is king, and their radios are loud ect... Someone said 1/4 is where it should be and that makes sense, Others like 1/2 which is where my cobra 142 amounts on a meter... 100W deadkey, 200W swing.. But I am trying to understand how deadkey/swing is actually calculated and how it differers from a barefoot radio, to one with an amp... I know it plays a mayjor role in not only how you sound, but how far you'll get out

If you want to make noise, just light the fuse on a silver salute!
In radio I would think it is better to be heard well and not loud. Loud helps to "get farther out" but not always heard better.... If there is QSB, fading, increasing RF output is helpful.
CB is not all that different from HAM or commercial radio. RF is RF and if you do not have the "good" measuring equipment then you have to trial and error it a bit to get the best sound or signal. Just like adjusting the audio system in your car or home!
One other thing.... your antenna is is like the speakers of your audio system and you want them to be in the best possible condition, so your antenna should be able to handle the signal. Impedance, reactance and resistance all part of the balance. Lots of variables make for an art!

73 mechanic

P.S. I usually do not run an amp! too much trouble!

 

[mechanic]

Your telling ME!!! LOL... I was on that cobra 25 which has a low little less the 1w deadkey, and it was working better then my base... So thats why I was curious.. PPl Say a swing kit is bad, with this amp its deadkey is about 50w and swinging forward to the max... with my base its 100DK swinging forward and sounds good too... BUT ppl say aside the mic (D104) on the base, the 25 is more powerful..

PS: I dont know about the base, But the cobra 25 is not clipped, just turned up the mod almost to 100%
btw: I am A.D.D so I am really trying to understand the concept for this new hobbie.

Final edit: Thanks so much mechanic, a final question.. Where is a good point to set the radio (Barefoot use) on the DK: I am going to add a switch for barefoot/amp use

I would set the dead key for at least 2 watts and then swing to 5 to 8 watts but there are just too many variables for me to say for sure! You will have to determine that with empirical values....

mechanic and 73!

 

[mechanic]

One last thing.... Use all this info, like Booty said, this is a good place to separate the bovine scat! and make your own decision.

73 mechanic

 

[Simbalage22]

Thanks mechanic.. You've got me on the right track.. I was just on 19 and they too say depending on the amp, lower deadkey is better, but too much swing is also bad. A nice balance of both is what you want..I am not needle happy, infact Based on my other thead (dk vs swing) They asked me to get a reading of whats comming out the amp, so recently bought a cable to do so... made me mad to hear that 25 was "louder" and "powerful" then my base which shows a higher deadkey LOL

 

[BOOTY MONSTER]

"Adjusting for 1/4 of deadkey might be too little as you need some bias for the amp the follow as long as you do not overdrive"

hey mechanic , are you talking about amplifier bias class as in A , B , AB etc. ? if so can you explain why a amp needs more than %25 dead key to for the amp to bias itself ? or any dead key at all since SSB is all modulated/pep power ?

 

[Simbalage22]

If you want to make noise, just light the fuse on a silver salute!
In radio I would think it is better to be heard well and not loud. Loud helps to "get farther out" but not always heard better.... If there is QSB, fading, increasing RF output is helpful.
CB is not all that different from HAM or commercial radio. RF is RF and if you do not have the "good" measuring equipment then you have to trial and error it a bit to get the best sound or signal. Just like adjusting the audio system in your car or home!
One other thing.... your antenna is is like the speakers of your audio system and you want them to be in the best possible condition, so your antenna should be able to handle the signal. Impedance, reactance and resistance all part of the balance. Lots of variables make for an art!

73 mechanic

P.S. I usually do not run an amp! too much trouble!

I know lots about car audio, and because much changes and is recorded at a different audio level, a scope doesnt help but limit power to the min without distortion, however you pop a low recorded track in and because its too low you wont have means to go over.. Thats the same senerio with cb.. at least thats how I am trying to get it to stick in my head.. I know that the radio is sounding good with the amp.. 50WDK and swinging forward, but without the amp its less then 1w and I believe alone it will be crap... So I want to add a switch to enable the swing kit for the amp, and disable it when its barefoot


Thanks a million though for all the insight...PS my antenna is a maco v5/8... I learned about swr and antenna choice the hard way when I bought my Cobra NWST back when, changed the finals... it was a sweet radio.. Bad wiring and bad antenna killed it

 

[Simbalage22]

"Adjusting for 1/4 of deadkey might be too little as you need some bias for the amp the follow as long as you do not overdrive"

hey mechanic , are you talking about amplifier bias class as in A , B , AB etc. ? if so can you explain why a amp needs more than %25 dead key to for the amp to bias itself ? or any dead key at all since SSB is all modulated/pep power ?

1/4 is the same as 25% isnt it?

 

[BOOTY MONSTER]

1/4 is the same as 25% isnt it?

yes it is .


install a variable dead key mod on your radio and you can adjust it how ever you like . i have one on my washington (same board/radio as your 148) its a nice feature for folks that dont run power all the time .

 

[Simbalage22]

yes it is .


install a variable dead key mod on your radio and you can adjust it how ever you like . i have one on my washington (same board/radio as your 148) its a nice feature for folks that dont run power all the time .

What is it, just a volume knob across where I have the swing kit? its with the mobile I Dont plan to run power yet, but I dont want to ruien the swing kit that lower the deadkey for an amp