Antenna Testing Event in Southern CA!

[Marconi]

Well MC I think there should be five groups.

Mobiles
1/4 wave vertical,
1/2 wave vertical,
1/2 wave greater vertical
1 wavelength quad if one shows up

No multi element beams.

Every antenna exhibits its best compared to each other in its own class at the same height to the feed point above earth, using an acceptable transmitter and a receiving device at some predetermined distance. MC if your FS meter will respond at some reasonable distance form the test area, then that too can be used to substantiate results as an additional monitored response.

After class winners are determined, each contender (except the mobiles) will then be allowed to compete by a one time signal report to the distant receiver with the height set at a minimum base height of 18' and a max antenna tip height of 50'. This is what the real world wants to know, how they perform if their antenna is the same height to the tip regardless of the overall length of the antenna.

All signals are to be generated using the same transmitter set at maximum output of the rig using dead key or FM signal only, no modulated input.

There probably should be a time limit placed on installation and tuning also.

 

[Master Chief]

After class winners are determined, each contender (except the mobiles) will then be allowed to compete by a one time signal report to the distant receiver with the height set at a minimum base height of 18' and a max antenna tip height of 50'. This is what the real world wants to know, how they perform if their antenna is the same height to the tip regardless of the overall length of the antenna.

I want to test antennas and document their performance. It's not a shootout or a contest. I do not understand the purpose of the height of the tip. Who does that? When you install an antenna, you usually know the height of your tower or push-up pole. I don't know anyone who has ever set their TIP to a predetermined height. I'm trying to understand this part of the test (I'm not against doing it though).

I can understand this if we were testing the Astro Plane as their claim is that this antenna allows you to put the antenna up higher without going pass the 60' mark and getting the signal up in the clear. Is this your thinking? What do others think about this test?

 

[bob85]

when i tested my stardusters/skylabs i did it with the bottom of the legs about level with the groundplanes of 5/8 or bottom of basket of sigma iv, i now think that gave the starduster an unfair advantage of maybe 8 foot, but i guess everybody has their own idea whats fair for an accurate test, i bet you guys have a good time out there

 

[Marconi]

Well I don't know fair from not, but when I test here I put them all at the same height to the feed point just as you suggest, and that is also what I suggested for each class, right?

But I also know when I get the tip of my 8' 9" high antenna up at the same height as the all the others, then them big uns' ain't quite so big any more. Maybe that is unfair like bob suggested.

MC, maybe every test range around does exactly as you say and then maybe they actually test these things lying on their sides just to make things even and/or to take the earth out of the picture as much as possible. Do you know for sure?

I said for the class test, lets keep them at the same height to the feed point. In Class everybody should be pretty equal regarding effective height. I'm not comin' all that way just to look better than another 1/4 wave antenna. I'm claimin', if you give me a fair chance at height, then I can equal or beat your signal, and make contact in spite of all your technical advantages. And then us little guys are still to be respected.

If ya'll, the big guys, can't stand the competition and have the rules about height limited just to the sole advantage of the longer radiators, then heck, I'll just stay at home and watch from the peanut gallery while you guys get out there and argue and fuss in spite of what you ultimately decide to do, if you can decide. If you are going to really make this a religious experience out there in the desert, then why don't you do just as you say and keep all antennas within the tip height restrictions noted by the FCC rules on height or say 50' to the tip. I will go for that and I will bring my Astro Plane also.

MC, your words here sounds like you're surprised at even the idea I propose. This idea has been around for ever and the Avanti campaign for the promotion of the Astro Plane is real proof of that. So don't go get all incredulous on me?

I am just trying to show folks, mostly the little guys out there that cannot spend the big bucks on their antennas from you big wheeler dealers, that they still have some chance with a more modest antenna in the world of CB radio if they just get it high enough. You and I might not like it, but don't you know MC, it's still all about power, signal, and "...what am I puttin' on your meter, Good Buddy?"

Besides that I thought all you MC's taught your folks to go exactly by the book so you would know exactly where the edge is when you stepped across that edge in order to always prevail. You're not tryin' to get religious on me are ya'? I don't really think you’re scared, but maybe Jay is payin' ya'. So come on lets have a little fun, you can't always be a peckerwood in CB.

And thanks Bob for the encouragement and seeing the bright light of this subject, fair or not. You're the man and you know what I mean.

 

[Master Chief]

Peckerwood? I'll comment more when I have some time. BTW, I said I wasn't against doing the test. I'm wide open! I just didn't understand YOUR reasons for wanting the tips equal, so i asked the question.

Jay does not use me as one of his beta testers and I have paid for all my antennas in one form or another. I have another on special order now and that will cost me $289.00, just like everyone else out here. I'm not the only person out here who KNOWS that his antenna is the best ever manufactured.

I didn't see the tongue-in-cheek icon or the little smiley so I'm not sure if you are having a bad day or are just kidding. At the very least let's try to keep the insults to a minimum!

I certainly don't know it all! I'm the first one to say so!

 

[Marconi]

Well you're probably right, the peckerwood reference was pretty much, and you don't deserve that. I get carried away sometimes and speak out without really thinking. As far as the smiley face, that is the only one I knew and I thought they were supposed to be used when a more light hearted refrain was intended.

All my antics to do a part in promoting this event, I have been obviously doing it in fun my way. But I guess you are just more serious and maybe the only one that did not see that. As of now I will stop that, it is or was not my intentions to piss anyone off.

You do what you want. If I am there I will abide by whatever the group decides on testing and I am for sure leaving Ol' Grandpa at home. He would not fit into the serious nature of this effort at all. I get the message.

Marconi

 

[AudioShockwav]

and I am for sure leaving Ol' Grandpa at home. He would not fit into the serious nature of this effort at all.

And just what makes you think that mean ole cotton-picker would stay home in the first place?


73
Jeff

 

[Marconi]

Well Mr. Jeff Ol' Grandpa's pickem' up truck is broke.

He said somethin' about not havin' changed the oil since 49. You know that he hooks his prize mule up to the truck just to go down the road to get some smokes didn't ya? So I don't think he will be makin' the trip out to Southern Calif this May, at least in his truck. He tell ya' that it ain't got nothin' to do with maken' it or not. He swears that ain't even the issue. It is all about how much feed can he haul, tryin' ta' make it back before he runs out or the feed all goes bad. He says Ol' Grey can pull all day and all night, but he gets to actin' bad (bad gas you know) when the feed starts to mold. Fresh sorghum feed tends to do that you know and he is concerned that them yankee pedlers at them off the road feed stores on the way out there don't even know what sorghum is. He says ol' Grey don't mind all the work and the long hot dusty road ahead, but he will sit down on ya fast, it the feed deal ain't right.

 

[Master Chief]

But I also know when I get the tip of my 8' 9" high antenna up at the same height as the all the others, then them big uns' ain't quite so big any more. Maybe that is unfair like bob suggested.

This is good stuff! I had only gave it a thought, once I read the patent for the Astro Plane.

MC, maybe every test range around does exactly as you say and then maybe they actually test these things lying on their sides just to make things even and/or to take the earth out of the picture as much as possible. Do you know for sure?

I have no idea.

I said for the class test, lets keep them at the same height to the feed point. In Class everybody should be pretty equal regarding effective height. I'm not comin' all that way just to look better than another 1/4 wave antenna. I'm claimin', if you give me a fair chance at height, then I can equal or beat your signal, and make contact in spite of all your technical advantages. And then us little guys are still to be respected.

First, you are not little! I'm sure I have learned more from you and others than I've given back. I say again, this would be a GREAT test. I surely don't expect a 1/4 wave signal to beat a 5/8 wave signal, cause physics is physics and math don't lie! But let's find out so one of us will shut up!

If ya'll, the big guys, can't stand the competition and have the rules about height limited just to the sole advantage of the longer radiators, then heck, I'll just stay at home and watch from the peanut gallery while you guys get out there and argue and fuss in spite of what you ultimately decide to do, if you can decide. If you are going to really make this a religious experience out there in the desert, then why don't you do just as you say and keep all antennas within the tip height restrictions noted by the FCC rules on height or say 50' to the tip. I will go for that and I will bring my Astro Plane also.

Who are the "big guys"? What competition? We're testing antennas and again, WE (you, me, and everyone) are coming up with the test parameters. I threw out suggestions to get the ball rolling and had a question or two about the tests being suggested, but I have yet to say NO to anything. I'm one man with one vote. WE = WE; not WE = ME! The only religion practiced in the middle of the desert will probably be beer worshiping. We may even come up with a few test on the fly! I really like the idea of the 60' to tip test! I wish I came up with that one!

MC, your words here sounds like you're surprised at even the idea I propose. This idea has been around for ever and the Avanti campaign for the promotion of the Astro Plane is real proof of that. So don't go get all incredulous on me?

Not surprised at all. I just didn't understand and wanted to be educated. I don't know if incredulous is the right word, but what ever you meant, I certainly am not going there with you. I just had a simple question for my benefit.

I am just trying to show folks, mostly the little guys out there that cannot spend the big bucks on their antennas from you big wheeler dealers, that they still have some chance with a more modest antenna in the world of CB radio if they just get it high enough. You and I might not like it, but don't you know MC, it's still all about power, signal, and "...what am I puttin' on your meter, Good Buddy?"

I tell people that the BEST money you can spend on a radio system is on the antenna and feedline. Most people think this is the LAST place to put their money. Ultimately, you put up what you can afford and everything works. Some have $$$ restrictions, other have location restrictions. You do what you can! I'm not a wheeler dealer and I don't sell any radio equipment. I don't worry about the power wars. My FAVORITE amp for CB is the Pride DX-300 and feel that is plenty of power! Whether you run a kilowatt+++ or a stock 4-watts, the BEST money you will ever spend on a radio system is on the ANTENNA and the FEEDLINE! "That's just MY opinion, I could be wrong."

Besides that I thought all you MC's taught your folks to go exactly by the book so you would know exactly where the edge is when you stepped across that edge in order to always prevail. You're not tryin' to get religious on me are ya'? I don't really think you’re scared, but maybe Jay is payin' ya'. So come on lets have a little fun, you can't always be a peckerwood in CB.

You don't become a Master Chief in the Navy by going by the book; you leave that up to the Officers who NEED you in order to get the job done, anyway you can! Jay doesn't pay me for anything! I have to make that clear as some out here will take that rumor and run with it. I'm nothing more than a happy customer who gave input early in the developement of his antennas.

As I said before, I'm an open book and looking for input on testing parameters. I'm not the one in charge here!, Just the guy organizing the event and towing the tower trailer.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Well you guys have fun with your testing. Sounds like a
great idea and could be a good education.
I can't participate, but, enjoy doing my own testing here.
Good Luck!

 

[Master Chief]

Hey Jim do you have any suggestions on testing parameters?

 

[RoadWarrior]

Well when i tested the Astro Plane (Top One) here.
I mounted the hoop 5 ft over top of the tower. Other
antennas with bottom feedpoints at 5ft over tower.
Reason: A.P. takes too much pipe to get it higher.
Already had 13ft of mast just to get it 5ft over.
Didn't want to push my luck to do a tip to tip deal.
I mounted Top One on tower at the height at which
if i chose that antenna, that's as high as i would of
mounted it here.
What heights do you think you will be able to reach
on the testing range? Are you guys using push-up poles?

 

[Mr Clean]

If any of you have a Shakesphere Pogostick to test I would love to hear how it does. I run one and it seems to be a better antenna than a A99 for sure.

 

[Devildog]

I just received an email from Wolf Radio that he stopped production on the .64 and he may resume in several months. Do you all have one to test? I would just like to know the results. Thanks, Jim

 

[Master Chief]

Yea Farm Boy I think you are right if would only be fair if I put my little starduster's feed point up to the same height as those big antennas. If you let me put my SD'rs 9' radiator up as high at the tip as those 5/8 wave and longer antennas I would probably do a lot better at making up the little signal difference there is.

I suggested they make the rule to limit tip height to 60' like the FCC rule speaks about. How fair would that be? The real point of their testing will be how much signal reaches the receiving stations on the range. If all antennas use the same transmitter and it is always set the same, then what could the advantages be that would make one antenna show more signal than another. Height is probably the most obvious. That is why I asked for a little consideration, but all I am getting is that the antennas will all be set at the same height to the feed point. Among all those antennas in the same class of antennas that will certainly be fair. So if they will also limit the antenna to a tip height of 60' then that will be helpful to my smaller antenna as well and if the soil conditions out there are as bad as I hope, then my little antenna will be less affected by the earth also, which may also improve its performance a bit.

-------------------------
Marconi

I'm very disappointed Marconi. You wrote the above post on April 1st on another forum. In respect to tip height, I posted here that I thought your idea was a good one and we should do it. That statement was posted way before April 1st. I questioned your reason for this test and said it certainly has merit. At no time did I ever say we wouldn't do it. I think a retraction is in order.

As far as the rest of the tests, height is only one part. Losses in feedpoint will become quite evident also.