Antennas and neighbors

[Slowmover]

Well now this is an interesting thread that begs a question......

I saw the ordinance listing above with the infamous #5 concerning 'licensed amateur'.

Amateur radio requires a license.
Citizen's Band radio does not require a license.
The Federal government/FCC offers/allows BOTH services.

(Not counting HOA's) Can a lower tier of government just completely disallow installation of an antenna.... in a legal radio service.... just because you don't have a license? For crying out loud... the service doesn't require one!

Thoughts???

First Amendment is clear as a principle. It’s enough for me.

(You one of those walking around with a face diaper?)

Don’t respond.
Put two & two together.

It ain’t about them.

What does it mean to be “neighborly”?

“Disturb the peace” like the jerks above isn’t neighborly.

You’ve moral agency, or you don’t.

.

 

[Riverman]

Whatever happened to talking to one’s neighbor and working things out?
Easy to tell little old ladies to hit the road. My guess is the conversation’s tone changes significantly when the neighbor is capable of jerking down your antenna and whipping your butt with it.

 

[Shadetree Mechanic]

Is CB "license free" or does the FCC automatically grant the license to the user? There are CB regulations and the privilege to operate can be revoked.

 

[guitar_199]

Thanks for jogging my memory!!!!

There is another very similar case in mind....
I have actually read the legal language of my city's distracted driving ordinance (the one that usually says "no cell phones while driving".

While I am not a lawyer.... one of the clauses granting exemptions.....
IS..... (drum roll please....)
A LICENSED AMATEUR RADIO OPERATOR using amateur radio equipment!

Now.... wait a minute.... either "CB does NOT require a license" OR " it is a "global inferred licensing as long as you operate according to FCC Part 95". In a way that is an entirely different discussion.

What IS germane here..... Citizens Band is a radio service allowed by the Federal Government. It IS a privilege (in a way) because the FCC has the power to compel you to not use it. (yet ANOTHER discussion!)

But back to my thought train.......

How can a city grant an exemption to licensed amateurs BUT, if they choose, cite a CB operator.... when no individual license is required?

Kind of different...but kind of the same.

The service is legal and allowed.

How can a city have ordinances that deny that?

Asking for a friend!!!!!

Is CB "license free" or does the FCC automatically grant the license to the user? There are CB regulations and the privilege to operate can be revoked.

 

[Road Squawker]

....

While I am not a lawyer.... one of the clauses granting exemptions.....
IS..... (drum roll please....)
A LICENSED AMATEUR RADIO OPERATOR using amateur radio equipment!

Now.... wait a minute.... either "CB does NOT require a license" OR " it is a "global inferred licensing...
How can a city grant an exemption to licensed amateurs BUT, if they choose, cite a CB operator.... when no individual license is required?

Kind of different...but kind of the same.

There is a legal difference between a LICENSE and a PERMIT, There is no such thing as a CB license,

It may be casually referred to as a license, but, it is not a license.

 

[Keto]

There is a legal difference between a LICENSE and a PERMIT, There is no such thing as a CB license,

It may be casually referred to as a license, but, it is not a license.

I remember 40 some years ago we had to send in for a , permit or license or whatever it was at the time, but they gave us, legally.
You don't suppose they use some of the same wording they had all those years ago?

 

[Rick330man]

BJ radionut posted about the license by rule procedure on another thread:

"CB & R/C license by rule, 48 Fed. Reg. 24882 (June 3, 1983)
The license by rule provision was originally enacted by Congress in 1982 for citizens band (CB) and radio control (R/C) services.6 Prior to 1982, theoretically all CB and R/C users were supposed to obtain individual licenses from the FCC before transmitting. The primary justification for the change to license by rule was the administrative burden on the FCC from licensing the large number of users of the CB and R/C services."

The "license by rule" procedure set up by the FCC for CB essentially deems you licensed by your use of the allotted frequencies in the manners allowed. Given that, I would argue that CB operators are in fact licensed and that their rights, as established under FCC rules and regulations, must also be respected by local laws.

I'm curious if anybody has actually litigated this stuff and what results they might have secured.

 

[cralt]

I wouldn't spend to much time worrying about it unless something actually happens.
Getting your tech license is easy would be good insurance JIC. Plus it opens up options if you want to play radio on other bands.

 

[guitar_199]

I suppose I should add.... I am a licensed general class ham so, if I were stopped, I can whip that laminated card out and show the officer. IT might or might not keep me from getting the ticket but I think it MIGHT help get the charge dropped.

My question remains.... somebody with a CB gets stopped...( by the way, in my community you can not TOUCH a cell phone while driving ANYWHERE. Not even at a red light!).....but if an officer stops someone....on a CB..... ARE THEY in violation?

Personally I would imagine that when you show up for the ticket and talk it over......they would likely drop it....since it WAS NOT a cell phone.

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

I suppose I should add.... I am a licensed general class ham so, if I were stopped, I can whip that laminated card out and show the officer. IT might or might not keep me from getting the ticket but I think it MIGHT help get the charge dropped.

My question remains.... somebody with a CB gets stopped...( by the way, in my community you can not TOUCH a cell phone while driving ANYWHERE. Not even at a red light!).....but if an officer stops someone....on a CB..... ARE THEY in violation?

Personally I would imagine that when you show up for the ticket and talk it over......they would likely drop it....since it WAS NOT a cell phone.

Better get the EXACT wording of that. Most jurisdictions state that using a "hand held communications device" so that includes cell phones, two-way radios with a hand held microphone and even GPS devices. That is why the exemption was made for amateur radio operators. It has NOTHING to do with allowing them to use a cell phone but rather to use their mobile radios. Further to that YES a town/city can enact regulations preventing you from erecting an antenna. Hams also have an exemption to that under PRB-1.

http://www.arrl.org/prb-1

 

[Rick330man]

A good friend of mine is in the process of putting up a .64 wave Hustler 2537 omni-directional in a municipality a few miles up the road here in the Florida Keys. He's got his ham ticket. The antenna is broad banded enough that he plans to use it on 10 meters and also for his CB base. His next door neighbor, an attorney likes to call local code enforcement for whatever the attorney believes violates local building code ordinances, which usually means anything this nosey neighbor doesn't like. You can see where this is going.

My friend, who is a pretty successful attorney in his own right started to put up the antenna. Out of nowhere, code enforcement shows up telling him he can't put it up. He pulls out his ham ticket and tells code enforcement that they are pre-empted by federal law. He gave code enforcement a week to decide whether they would follow his interpretation of the law or whether he would have to sue them. He also made it clear that he was not going to back down on this. It has been about a month now and my friend has not heard back.

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[jkp1]

Im an oversize load escort. I'm required by law to have a two way communication devise when ever I'm with a load. I'm required to be able to communicate with the driver. Everyone uses a CB. I.m not sure how that works with the laws, but I've never heard of anyone getting a ticket. I've always thought the no phone laws were enacted because of the irresponsible use when driving and the responsible use got included. I'm not anticipating getting a ticket while working, but you never know.

 

[Rick330man]

Rick,
I was going to read up on the Hustler 2564 but can find nothing on it. Does it have another name?

My mistake. It is a .64 wave Hustler 2537.

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

A good friend of mine is in the process of putting up a .64 wave Hustler 2537 omni-directional in a municipality a few miles up the road here in the Florida Keys. He's got his ham ticket. The antenna is broad banded enough that he plans to use it on 10 meters and also for his CB base. His next door neighbor, an attorney likes to call local code enforcement for whatever the attorney believes violates local building code ordinances, which usually means anything this nosey neighbor doesn't like. You can see where this is going.

My friend, who is a pretty successful attorney in his own right started to put up the antenna. Out of nowhere, code enforcement shows up telling him he can't put it up. He pulls out his ham ticket and tells code enforcement that they are pre-empted by federal law. He gave code enforcement a week to decide whether they would follow his interpretation of the law or whether he would have to sue them. He also made it clear that he was not going to back down on this. It has been about a month now and my friend has not heard back.

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Also bear in mind that even under PRB-1 ham cannot simply erect whatever they want. The key point is "reasonable accommodation" however reasonable has not been defined. I suppose it depends on the surrounding areas.

 

[Keto]

A good friend of mine is in the process of putting up a .64 wave Hustler 2537 omni-directional in a municipality a few miles up the road here in the Florida Keys. He's got his ham ticket. The antenna is broad banded enough that he plans to use it on 10 meters and also for his CB base. His next door neighbor, an attorney likes to call local code enforcement for whatever the attorney believes violates local building code ordinances, which usually means anything this nosey neighbor doesn't like. You can see where this is going.

My friend, who is a pretty successful attorney in his own right started to put up the antenna. Out of nowhere, code enforcement shows up telling him he can't put it up. He pulls out his ham ticket and tells code enforcement that they are pre-empted by federal law. He gave code enforcement a week to decide whether they would follow his interpretation of the law or whether he would have to sue them. He also made it clear that he was not going to back down on this. It has been about a month now and my friend has not heard back.

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I want to hear how that clash turns out!