Battle of the ground planes

[Marconi]

So in short term would you say that it performs better then the vector 4000 or SP500 as far as RX and Tx goes? The wattage part is my only concern but again ive never had to run more then 300 watts on SSb to do what I need it to do!! My BIGGEST thing im looking at is a antenna that has the lowest loss at the feed point and highest gain out and if icing the cake was being able to hold 2k watts that would be nice also, but can live without that because my beams will be up sooner or later and set up for Am Broadcasting

The models in my link below don't show the GM is better in gain or angle over real Earth, but I explained other features the GM has that I think are superior without doubt. My real world experience with several other antennas show the GM is nothing special in performance either, but the other features it has impress me. Right now I have it up, and 36' away I have one of my original StarDusters up about 6' short of being as tall to the tip. I see very little difference in gain most of the time, but the SD'r is typically quieter by a good bit...in my setup here. That might change however, it I were to switch the mounts.

Here is a link to my TOA thread for CB antennas 211. I have listed some my CB models in their order of gain over Real Earth.

If you're looking for models that guarantee perfection in results, then don't consider my models, listen to what the antenna manufactures claim and go by that. Then maybe you can give me all the nitty-gritty detailed dimensions, and I can try and model the antenna. Then we can compare, and see if the model pans out suggesting what your real world experience and testing produces.

I just model em' and try and get all the dimensions correct. I don't bother with all the Eznec bells and whistles. All the sooth-sayers complain, but my models are none-the-less not much if any different than you'll see from just about every Internet source I've ever seen...excepting for the fact that I'm willing and can provide more info...if you understand modeling somewhat.

Thanks for the comments 211.

http://www.worldwidedx.com/cb-antennas/158801-take-off-patterns-cb-antennas-we-use.html

Modeling is hard enough work just trying to get the dimensions right. Nobody has the time or the patience to make a model produce results that are totally unrealistic on purpose...or so I hope. Of course accidents and errors do happen.

What kind of antenna are you looking for?

In my personal opinion all of my CB antennas produce very close to the same results...if I get the maximum current lobes at the same height to the center. The list above has, for the most part, all antennas at the same 32' foot level. I detailed this in my first post in the thread above and this is just my opinion. I leave things to you guy's to deal with...in all the facts and theories regarding antennas.

 

[211inthamag]

As always Marconi thank you for your information and your opinion on antennas and what testing YOU have done so far in your compairing...

I think what im trying to do here is find the best "All round" Ground plane..im going to be buying 2 because I have a good friend of mine that has been down do to bad weather (Katrina) and didn't have the financial backing to help him get 10-8 again...well im going to get him 10-8 ...ill probably get him the gain master or the SP500 like he use to have and well as for me ..im just as picky as they come and do a lot of research before I just stick a antenna in the air...my wife today wont let me do like I use to and just buy all of them and test them out lol....I guess now that im building her a new house she is feeling "sweet" and told me to put her back up in the air again but make sure the tower is waaaaay in the back 40 lol..

 

[Shockwave]

I've had all of these antennas. The Vector beats ever other ground plane in existence in terms of signal in the distance including the SP500. The biggest problem with the Vector is it's huge and every March when the first Nor'easter would come through it would fold right over on the roof.

Because it clearly outperformed all the other ground planes I continued to reinstall it three times. Each time making it stronger than the last. When the GM came out two years ago, I decided to give it a try on the same mast and coax the Vector was on.

My distant locals all maintained the same signal strength using a DVM connected to the signal meter to measure the slightest change. It does not outperform a Vector but the performance is virtually the same with much more bandwidth and in a hurricane proof package. Tested by Sandy at over 90 MPH!

 

[Mudfoot]

I can't recommend the GM enough.

 

[211inthamag]

Thats what I like to hear and I think that will be the perfect antenna for my friend, he likes to talk on 27 385 to 27.595 and it looks like the antenna likes the lower freqs better (mid 26)but that is my only hang up other then the power handling

 

[211inthamag]

Marconi
Do you still have the Gainmaster up and if so how are you liking it? Has it improved your dx talking over the imax and how is it holding up to winds

 

[HomerBB]

The V4k is the best of them, or their type among those listed, but is not in the list. So, of those in the list, the question posed was, as has been said, the best all around antenna. I chose the Merlin from among the choices.

1. Light
2. Durable
3. Comparable performance at the same tip height to all of above
4. Portable when needed
5. Can facilitate receiving other transmissions
6. Can facilitate outgoing transmissions

Big disadvantage is it's too costly by comparison to most of those in the list.

 

[Marconi]

Marconi
Do you still have the Gainmaster up and if so how are you liking it? Has it improved your dx talking over the imax and how is it holding up to winds

Sorry I took so long 211. I just wrote a post to Homer and it failed because my connection dropped out with Comcast, the big Kahuna in the business supposedly.

I was telling Homer, that I was going to take my GM down, because of late I notice a little shift in the match, and we've had some terrible winds this year. I want to check and see if it might be failing like I've heard the plastic breaking up. I also want to check the matching device and see if everything looks OK there.

Plus my steady as a rock matched Starduster is doing me better than my GM. Maybe the GM is temperamental where it is, and doesn't like the locations. It is twice as noisy as the SD, and I recall it use to be just as quite.

I'll post my findings in a bit, if the creek don't rise.

Homer, if you have good dimensions for your Merlin could you share them with this old man.

I'll pay you on Tuesday.

 

[Shockwave]

Sorry I took so long 211. I just wrote a post to Homer and it failed because my connection dropped out with Comcast, the big Kahuna in the business supposedly.

I was telling Homer, that I was going to take my GM down, because of late I notice a little shift in the match, and we've had some terrible winds this year. I want to check and see if it might be failing like I've heard the plastic breaking up. I also want to check the matching device and see if everything looks OK there.

Plus my steady as a rock matched Starduster is doing me better than my GM. Maybe the GM is temperamental where it is, and doesn't like the locations. It is twice as noisy as the SD, and I recall it use to be just as quite.

I'll post my findings in a bit, if the creek don't rise.

Homer, if you have good dimensions for your Merlin could you share them with this old man.

I'll pay you on Tuesday.

I just wanted to add that my GM was beat to hell by hurricane sandy last year. Taking gusts up to 90 MPH and sustained winds of over 50 MPH for several hours with no damage.

Prior to its installation there was a 5/8 groundplane on the same mast and then a Vector 4000. The Vector beat the 5/8 wave noticeably in distant signal. Switching to the GM from the Vector did not reduce signals to any degree that I could notice.

No increase in noise was noted on any of the three antennas. The only real difference in noise levels I see are switching from a vertical omni to the horizontal beam. Since the GM went up, I mounted a 4 element Yagi 8 feet under it and a 2 meter vertical about 14 feet away and inline with the GM. Again, no change in several distant signals could be noted and the VSWR stayed flat.

You do have me curious as to what others have claimed about the "plastic breaking up"? I'm having a hard time figuring out where any weak link could be with respect to plastic failing. I've not heard of a reported failure since the first ones were made.

 

[211inthamag]

That's ok Marconi...I hate to hear that about the Gain Master..i hope it is something minor going on with it and you can get it back to normal!! Please keep us informed (as I know you will)

 

[HomerBB]

Sorry I took so long 211. I just wrote a post to Homer and it failed because my connection dropped out with Comcast, the big Kahuna in the business supposedly.

I was telling Homer, that I was going to take my GM down, because of late I notice a little shift in the match, and we've had some terrible winds this year. I want to check and see if it might be failing like I've heard the plastic breaking up. I also want to check the matching device and see if everything looks OK there.

Plus my steady as a rock matched Starduster is doing me better than my GM. Maybe the GM is temperamental where it is, and doesn't like the locations. It is twice as noisy as the SD, and I recall it use to be just as quite.

I'll post my findings in a bit, if the creek don't rise.

Homer, if you have good dimensions for your Merlin could you share them with this old man.

I'll pay you on Tuesday.

I'll see what I can dig up, but that old PC I had them on won't boot up anymore, and the HDD case for it I ordered is the wrong one.

 

[Marconi]

I just wanted to add that my GM was beat to hell by hurricane sandy last year. Taking gusts up to 90 MPH and sustained winds of over 50 MPH for several hours with no damage.

Prior to its installation there was a 5/8 groundplane on the same mast and then a Vector 4000. The Vector beat the 5/8 wave noticeably in distant signal. Switching to the GM from the Vector did not reduce signals to any degree that I could notice.

No increase in noise was noted on any of the three antennas. The only real difference in noise levels I see are switching from a vertical omni to the horizontal beam. Since the GM went up, I mounted a 4 element Yagi 8 feet under it and a 2 meter vertical about 14 feet away and in line with the GM. Again, no change in several distant signals could be noted and the VSWR stayed flat.

You do have me curious as to what others have claimed about the "plastic breaking up"? I'm having a hard time figuring out where any weak link could be with respect to plastic failing. I've not heard of a reported failure since the first ones were made.

Donald, I'm just speculating here.

I could be wrong about the spliting problem. I was thinking these stories came to my attention long after the original issue with the capacitor problem, maybe even after a year or two, not sure when.

I got my GM in November 2010, and since October of 2011, my GM and my Starduster have been up, side by sides since, and nothing in my setup has changed either. My last Antenna Work Sheet dated 04/18/11, shows my in line meter bandwidth to show a flat match from 27.205 to 28.005, and still pretty much flat up to 29.005, at 1.16:1 SWR.

Today all of these frequencies this antenna shows about 1.20, and the antenna seems to have become noisy. This is all I know, and it happened a little while back. I had the thought that maybe the wire stop at the tip might have let go and somehow the wire has sagged a bit. Nothing else comes to mind. The antenna still looks to be standing true.

The only reason I said anything was because 211, asked me a direct question on my opinion.

 

[Marconi]

I'll see what I can dig up, but that old PC I had them on won't boot up anymore, and the HDD case for it I ordered is the wrong one.

Homer, I'll send you a "redundancy" scheme I use here. It provides resources for me very well, and I never have to tell my teacher, "...the dog ate my notes..." {Cry_river}
any time Homer...I'm in no hurry.

 

[hotrod]

again the sp-500 has my vote.
good ole alumin
high power handling
very good rx/tx
i fail to see how any other antenna listed can beat another .64
no matter how much money it costs
to me the GM looks like a big dummy load.covering so much bandwith.
and ya know a dummyload is a terrible antenna.but theres many here
that had good luck with it. so guess this thinking is wriong..lol..it biggest
downfall is power handling capabilities

 

[HomerBB]

Marconi, this is the best I can do for now:

Merlin Experiment Post