BBT Delivered Hy-Gain Penetrator 500 Today

[Eastside]

I scanned these pages from my manual....should be sufficient to answer your questions.

 

[Needle Bender]

ok thank you eastside. comparing the old original manual from cb tricks from 1975 it looks like the new one is a little different by 9.5 inches shorter than the old version. seems strange they didnt keep it identical so theres no controvercy about which one performs better since the original had such a good reputation that it waranted being brought back from the grave. guess i will look for an original

http://www.cbtricks.com/ant_manuals/hygain/model_500/graphics/hy-gain_500_penetrator_1975_early.pdf

 

[BOOTY MONSTER]

maybe they took VF into account for the new one ???

 

[gamegetter]

I added up all the individual measurements of the main vertical as shown on eastsides new instructions and came up with 23.71 feet? Let me double check that.

On edit:

Yup, if you add them all up (including eastsides given measurement of 72" of the base radiator) the total is 23 feet 8 1/2 inches.

 

[gamegetter]

...and considering a 3 inch overlap at each tube, that would make it 22' 8 1/2", still not what their instructions say, but none the less very close to the cb length needed.

 

[Needle Bender]

I added up all the individual measurements of the main vertical as shown on eastsides new instructions and came up with 23.71 feet? Let me double check that.

On edit:

Yup, if you add them all up (including eastsides given measurement of 72" of the base radiator) the total is 23 feet 8 1/2 inches.

maybe they took VF into account for the new one ???

booty that would make it electrically longer by a tiny bit like x 1.002 but if the tuning is higher it would be shorter. maybe hygain wanted thers to be flat down in the middle of 11m so bootleggers could go below 1 and above 23. maybe they tuned the old original for 26.5 to 27.0 and the new one for the middle of the european cb band around 27.7? id like to know where the new one tunes on a analizer

 

[gamegetter]

you were prolly typing when i posted about the 3 inch overlap needle bender, that overlap taken into account should make the length right on.

 

[Marconi]

ok thank you eastside. comparing the old original manual from cb tricks from 1975 it looks like the new one is a little different by 9.5 inches shorter than the old version. seems strange they didnt keep it identical so theres no controvercy about which one performs better since the original had such a good reputation that it waranted being brought back from the grave. guess i will look for an original

http://www.cbtricks.com/ant_manuals/hygain/model_500/graphics/hy-gain_500_penetrator_1975_early.pdf

Thanks for the images Eastside. IMO, the new SP500 is different by various dimensions, but I think you'll likely find it works about the same. There is not much to mess up with this one, and the 22' talked about may be just right for the middle of CB.


NB, your CB Tricks link did not show up on your post for some reason, but if you look close you will see various models presented.

If you shop around how will you know which of the various models that HG seems to have made over the years. The base element alone as varied in length from 71" to 77" for this antenna, and now I think ES tells us his new model uses a 72" inch base, which likely does not include the 1.5" length of the insulator at the base.

I believe over time HG has changed the overall length to go from 23 channels to 40 channels and maybe even for some other reasons.

Since this antenna is not tunable except for adjusting the tip length, I think you would be hard pressed to see much difference in performance among the various models...as long as your tuning efforts got you close using an analyzer or and SWR meter, assuming the combination of potential feed line and height, or construction, and feed line issues didn't create some problems.

Thanks for the info and discussion.

 

[Needle Bender]

you were prolly typing when i posted about the 3 inch overlap needle bender, that overlap taken into account should make the length right on.

ok i just added it up and its only 1/2 inch shorter than the original-22 feet 81/2 inches wihtout adding the top-hat like gamegetter said. thats a long antenna! over 23 feet with the top-hat and even longer with the vf

 

[gamegetter]

needle that is physical length of main radiator...putting it right on cb band. that top hat is only there as a static dissipator to reduce receiver noise.

 

[Needle Bender]

needle that is physical length of main radiator...putting it right on cb band. that top hat is only there as a static dissipator to reduce receiver noise.

we left off the top-hat many years ago when i helped pout up a clr2 and the swrs were way high until we remembered and pulled it down and added back the top-hat then it went flat. i think its metal adding length to the antenna and will tune it differently without it

so they say its 22' 9 1/2" here Hy-Gain Super Penetrator 10/12 meter Vertical Antenna

but it measures 22' 8 1/2"

but it shows 22'

but it says 19'
do they even know how long there antenna is?

 

[VA3ES]

The "top hat" is actually a capacitive hat which provides the compensating capacitive loading (Xc) for the inductive loading (Xl) provided by the hair-pin match. Without it, the antenna would be longer, and quite possibly the match and VSWR poorer.

As I mentioned in my previous post, the original total length of the 1975-era Penetrator is 22' 6-1/8" (for the CB band).

Not sure at all why the current version's manual shows 19' ? In any case, you all are using an antenna analyzer, aren't you? The use of an antenna analyzer is crucial.

 

[gamegetter]

perhaps the top hat on my super maggie m117 works differently, it is round and starts at the top of the vertical and comes back down to the vertical, i have some pics some where if i can find them.

 

[Needle Bender]

The "top hat" is actually a capacitive hat which provides the compensating capacitive loading (Xc) for the inductive loading (Xl) provided by the hair-pin match. Without it, the antenna would be longer, and quite possibly the match and VSWR poorer.

As I mentioned in my previous post, the original total length of the 1975-era Penetrator is 22' 6-1/8" (for the CB band).

Not sure at all why the current version's manual shows 19' ? In any case, you all are using an antenna analyzer, aren't you? The use of an antenna analyzer is crucial.

i need to get an analizer but i dont believe the penetrator match is inductive like a coil match plus it has a balancing connection to ground. i'm not sure but i think capacitence hats work for antennas that are shorter then a 1/4

 

[Marconi]

MrS, I'm not sure I talked about the new P500 being short in this thread, but when I did refer to the new P500 as short, I was talking about the instructions showing the radiator at 19'. I think maybe that is what others were saying as well. I called it an error and did not suggest that it was HG's setting for 10 meters. In fact, I think I suggested that 19' was likely too short for 10 meters as well.

At this point I think there are several of the new antennas around and ready to install, but thus far no reports that I can recall. The few that have talked about their new P500 being received...were suggesting they were going for 10 meters anyway. So I'm still waiting to see some numbers. I think the New P500 instructions were written to accommodate 10 meters, but I don't get the 19' indication as noted except to say the new owner has made some goofs in other antenna instructions they sell.

If you're feeling better now, maybe you could answer some questions I have asked myself on the subject of small top hats. I did some modeling that I will share. I was surprised at some of the results.

Have you modeled any 5/8 waves with a top hat, added or removed about this size?

If so, what kind of results for pattern, gain, max angle, and source match did you see...compared to a regular length antenna?

And if not, what do you think happens with the antenna in this regard?

Well I guess I won't get my questions answered now.