BBT Delivered Hy-Gain Penetrator 500 Today

[Marconi]

your tape measure picture looked like 15 1/4 and 15 3/4 inches in length plus about one inch for the shorter angle diagonally bend and maybe 1 1/2 inches for the longer one at the other end. it looks like about a 3 1/2 inch long curve but its more than half a circle so i figured the curve as 70% a 3 1/2 inch circlke and got 11 inches times 70% and got 8 inches minus the 3 1/2 inches it measures strait across which is already counted in the 15 1/4inches. then i added 1inch for the 90 degree fold at the top plus 3/4 inch on each end for the circles for connecting and when you add it all up i get 41 inches but the circles are only maybe 1/2 inch so thats why i thought 40 inches total looks about right to me and oo7 sounded like he had one right there to measure

NB, you're probably right, you did say 40" straightened out. When I started modeling the SP 500 to included the matcher I noticed that I had read the red numbers on the tape in error.

I think the wires for my model of the matcher all added up to about 40" as it tuns out, but I don't have a loop at the radials, mine is square and I just guessed as some of the smaller lengths, so that will make some difference in the overall length I should get.

Due to the limitations in the way Eznec allows us to connect two wires, I have not figured out yet how to connect the ground wire to the ground (wire #25 in the image), and using accurate dimensions. The ground wire is there, but it is the wrong size and in the wrong place, so my matcher is not working well yet. This is why exact dimensions are so necessary if you want to model. I tried to use the same lengths for the shorter angled areas just as you describe above, 1" and 1.5", but with no curve. So, I'll be a bit short here in the overall as well.

VA3ES said he was going to get the details for the matchers on both an old and a new, and maybe for the whole antenna too. That will help. NB, you said 007 may have the dimensions I wanted too, would you ask him?

View attachment SP 500 matcher.pdf

Someone commented about the matcher's changing when HyGain went to 40 channels, and IMO that would probably make some sense. I just don't think these non-tunable coils are that broad banded as to the tap point, so they could look similar and still have some small dimensional differences over the years. I can't explain why the old to new would necessarily fit this scenario, but I believe it could and it also makes sense.

 

[BOOTY MONSTER]

http://www.worldwidedx.com/cb-antennas/34419-save-penetrator-500-antenna.html

 

[Marconi]

http://www.worldwidedx.com/cb-antennas/34419-save-penetrator-500-antenna.html

Thanks BM, but this is probably an old model and we're thinking the matcher may have changed some. I captured the top picture when you posted it a while back, but I couldn't find the others. Thanks.

I used these guesstimates, but guessed wrong, ask NB. After discovering my mistake and correcting, the antenna still doesn't work to tune the antenna. I can't use these pictures, because there's not enough information, plus they may be for an older Penetrator and be different at some points. Maybe I'll take some real wire and bend it to these measurements and then measure that, but I still won't know if I had made a mistake.

I'll wait and see what VA3ES and 007 come up with on a new model of the SP 500, before I continue to tinker anymore. A lot depends on how much detail their willing to put forth.

So I'm back to the I-10K which is working a little bit. It is a much easier antenna to model, but I have to find out why it's not tuning the antenna like it should when I tinker with the matcher like we do in tuning the physical antenna.

 

[Needle Bender]

hey marcomi i found that quote in a thread called the hy-gain penetrater 500 matching rod here on this forum so maybe if you post there oo7 will reply. are you conecting the ground part from the begining of the other side of the matcher to the radial like those pictures show?

 

[Marconi]

hey marcomi i found that quote in a thread called the hy-gain penetrater 500 matching rod here on this forum so maybe if you post there oo7 will reply. are you conecting the ground part from the begining of the other side of the matcher to the radial like those pictures show?

Yes NB, wire #25 connects the radials at junction #17 on the top radial flange, and connects to the ground side of the feeder, right below the feed point with the two red circles.

The problem is that this wire #25 is no where near the shape of the real wire and is not attached in the same location at the top either, where it is supposed to be located...in the middle of the radial bracket. Brackets also have effects on the antenna currents as well, and I didn't include anything for them either. Lots of little mistakes and work yet to be done.

The insulator is also not shown in the image, but that is not conductive so it's not necessary, and you'll just have to imagine that being there.

Does anyone know if the stud located in the side of the bottom insulator, where the the shorting and the ground side feeder wires are connected together, is electrically connected to the antenna, or is it just a stud...used to secure the bottom of these two wires?

We don't generally think about all of this detail when building our antennas from kits we buy, but when trying to model one all of these little nooks and crannies gets to be very important. Even the angles and bends, which don't change the overall wire length, does tend to take up space or not, and they can and do effect the wires form dimensions. Even the square part around the radial bracket probably makes some difference.

IMO the details is all important to modeling, and is probably as true for folks building antennas from scratch, like BM. I'll bet he sweated over little cuts, angles, and bends.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Needle Bender]

the stud bolt where both the ground side and the feed side fpr the match are together is a bolt going through the insulator hooked on the inside to a wire from the middle of the coax connecter but insulated from everthing else

 

[Marconi]

the stud bolt where both the ground side and the feed side fpr the match are together is a bolt going through the insulator hooked on the inside to a wire from the middle of the coax connecter but insulated from everthing else

So the stud is hot, right? My antenna is way short, so I suspect there is more wire somewhere in this tuner. My shorting wire is also short and that should help some more to get the reactance in the feed point match down a bit.

Bob, you're right about the stud. So, I'll have to change my models source to #24 and #25 I think.

Thanks NB.

 

[Needle Bender]

yes its hot. theres about 1 1/2 inches of wire and stud bolt from the so239 conecter to the matcher

 

[hackindave]

Here is a link to a CBTricks ads that are dated for the several old HyGain Penetrator and the CLR2 version as well as the Radio Shack model built by HyGain and they use swagged tubing in the older models for sure, just read the text. Hy-gain Model 500 "Penetrator 500" There were some changes in the 80's when the 40 channels came out so maybe you had a later model and not a 75 model.

I think, if you check out some other antennas that HyGain has built over time you will see that they almost always use swagging some where in the construction. I have one of their old Long John 5 element beam antennas and it too uses swagged tubing in the elements and the boom.

Sometimes you can't get the real story just looking at the pictures.

Do you have anything we could see that supports your claim?

Wish I could buy one of these now for the $39.95 price listed in the ads

 

[Needle Bender]

Wish I could buy one of these now for the $39.95 price listed in the ads

39.95 in 1975 is easily $150 in todays junk 0bamma dollars

 

[IRock817]

Let me throw you a curve. The new gamma system is diffrent then the older Penetrators. I ordered new parts from hygain and the gamma wire is much longer then the one I took off. It also attaches to the vertical opposite of the way it use too. I had to drill my bottom element to make the new LONGER wire work.
Also the metal lug that is inside the bottom insulator is longer!
Food for thought!!!

 

[Needle Bender]

gamma longer radiator shorter. now a 5/8. no more .64:sad:
why not? like 0bummer- when you have a good thing change it!

 

[IRock817]

I had to shorten the antenna to achieve a flat swr at 27 MHz.

 

[gamegetter]

just saying

if possible i would have bent and formed the new gamma wire to look like the original instead of changing the original antenna dimensions.

also instead of buying the gamma wire match, i prolly would have found it from old other antenna if you have a few laying around...i keep a stock of old antennas to scavenge parts from for repairs.

 

[IRock817]

It's all good here! The antenna works great and I haven't put the analyzer on it yet! I have had some great ground wave contacts and the antennas on a six foot test pole. Right now I'm listening to some guys in mobiles twenty miles away and they're hitting me around seven pounds.
I couldn't be happier with the outcome so far!