CB and the FCC

[excavator701]

putting my 2 sence in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

snoope i agree with your last post 100% i have sat here and read all the posts i think the whole conversation has been to opinionated and quit childish i have been around radios for a long time my father has been a ham for close to 50 yrs i have seen the benifits to both sides of this conversation and it comes down to one thing and that is CB,ERS ARE CB,ERS AND HAMS ARE HAMS AND BASICALLY ITS LIKE TRYING TO PUT 2 THINGS TOGETHER THAT ISNT GOING GO WORK!!!!!!! there is always going to be a discrepency.and alot of the comments in most of these posts trying to make the cb,er sound like a stupid redneck and the hams more of the intelligent, of the radio junkies is stupid and somewhat discrimative no i am not a ham and dont plan on being one for the simple reason it goes back to a post i saw cb,ers atleast have a open and good time on the radio talking about everyday topic most hams are so technical and serious that it makes it boring to even listen to have the time. but anyways this is getting off the original topic and i am sorry if i affended anybody but i see the agenda of the hams in here thanks!!!!!!!

 

[C W Morse]

You are correct that Amateur Radio has entirely differently basis and purpose than CB does. Often CBers try to apply their own ideas as to how ham radio should be, and the hams try to apply their own standards to CB. Sure, there is a more relaxed atmosphere on CB because it requires nothing from the user except to go out to Walmart and by a $39.95 CB radio and become a radio "operator". The CB is an appliance that anyone can use and that is a good thing for the public. Amateur radio has stricter guidelines for the operator and he is more likely to get into trouble if he doesn't follow the rules. That, too, is a good thing for that service. The two radio services are only similar in that they use radios. Yes, some hams have disdain for CB radio--that's true. Not accurate, but some will mock CB as a whole. One of the things that DOES irk hams is the blatant disregard for the regulations that designed to allow users to get the most out of their own stations. Yes, they don't like the amplifiers, the "extree" (read STOLEN) channels, "freebanders", peaked, beeped clipped, and squeaked radios, and splatter that ends up often on the Amateur bands. I've more than once heard this faint noise on 10 Meters and followed the sound as it got ever louder as I zero beat the AM signal on 27 MHZ. TWO megerhertz away from me!! :evil: Guy's running megawatts with a clipped radio and a bootleg splatterbox! He thinks he's "treetop tall and blowin' smoke in central N'awth C'liner" :evil: THAT, I hold in contempt, not CBers! I hold in contempt the illegal "export" radios that have no business IN business, the audacity of some operators that think "I've got rights to talk on them 'extree channels' cuz I am this big station and you cain't stop me", and the goofballs I find on 28 MHZ AM within the Morse/digital window where, if these idiots actually KNEW what they were doing, they wouldn't BE there to start with, and 2) they'd know that the part they are using isn't even allowed for the hams to use on voice! So, yes, I am disdainful of lawbreakers, both within the radio community, and the ones that break into homes, etc. But THEY think they know what they are doing, and their knowledge of radio came mostly from urban legend and CB myth (Coax length, them 'freebands' are empty, and their 'swr-rrrrrrrrrrrrr's' are caused because they don't have 18 feet and 3 foot jumpers between the amplifier they aren't supposed to have to START with, and you have to have 200 %
modulation and echo to make people think they are such a BIG radio station, the radio he just bought MUST be peaked and clipped for it to work right---and on and on. Funny how the builders and designers with electronics degrees don't know beans about building radios Ya reckon it is because they are trying to comply with the law--that strange document called Part 95, Title 47, US Code? My gosh, if there were no laws, even those we don't like, or understand, what would life be like?

Now, having said all that, yup, *some* will say, "see there, he's makin' fun of CBers". Perception is 90 % of any opinion, so
about 70% of the readers here will begin to circle their wagons and wail about "stuck-up" hams that say anything about the illegal and, yes, IMMORAL, violation of Part 95 or Part 97, for that matter! Yes, I am disdainful, and resentful of the ILLEGAL part of CB! Yes! I dislike hearing bandit operators on frequencies for which they have no right or business. YES! I don't like "export" radios and other activities of *some* operators. I also am disdainful of the hams who violate the law with their own operations--no difference. Do I use CB? YES! Do I have conversations on CB? Yes, if I find one that is not full of the "cutesy" lingo and illegal operation. (Technically, you are not to talk with a station that is obviously illegal, and of course, if you are illegal as well.......................)

I suppose it IS hard to separate the differences and some hams will become smug simply because they memorized some questions and became "better" (NOT!) than Joe CBer. The REAL radio operator is one who operates legally, is willing to assist others, is courteous, and ready to help in an emergency--be he a ham or CBer. To the CBer who operates illegally anyway, any non-acceptance of that by hams is called "stuck-up", snooty, and a host of other names. But, at least, that ham sat down and did SOMETHING to earn the privilege, and he
*may* now look upon the outlaw CB op with some disgust because he STOLE the same privileges (extra channels, amplifiers, etc) without doing a darn thing!

OTH, Amateur Radio offers a wonderful world of experiences, a whole new host of friends and a chance to LEARN about radio and how your operation affects others. By taking that exam, hopefully after studying the rules and technical issues of the license, you become a better operator, and in exchange, you are granted a technically superior, technically more roomy area to operate in!

Everything we do has reasons, restrictions, and "why" it is the way it is. Hams see radio from a standpoint (for the most part) of earning and learning their craft. CBers come to radio with, usually, NO idea of what they are about other than the ideas from friends, what the CB dealer told him, urban legend and *some* myth. To separate the two requires you examine the purpose of each one, the environment of each, and the things that cause the respective operators to feel the way they do.


Happy New Year!

CWM

 

[Sonwatcher]

Wow ! CW MORSE just got down !

 

[C W Morse]

o

OK, snoope. I've used this many, many times, but if I just walked into your house, and flipped on the TV you left on while gone to the store for some cool ones, what's the harm using your analogy? I am in your house without no apparent ill intent, the TV is already there and on--same if it were it I hadn't come in. It isn't costing you anymore for me to sit there and watch it, right?

Yet when you came home and discovered a stranger in your house you would be ready to fight or call the police. THIS GUY JUST WALKED INTO MY HOUSE WITHOUT MY PERMISSION AND I WANT HIM REMOVED AND ARRESTED. :x :evil:

The logic applies to the THEFT of frequencies--an intangible commodity just the same as a tangible thing you can see, touch, and smell. They are there for USE by AUTHORIZED (licensees or grantees) by virtue of their having applied for that permission. That permission is the license or authorization from the granting agency (FCC, NTIA, or the agency in control). So when them bandits just "go up a clicK" not only are they WRONG, they probably don't know (or care) the harm that may occur to the OTHER parties. It is not UP to you to decide the harm or lack thereof; it is up to the laws that have been crafted to protect from interference.

As to the "freeband" that everybody thinks is "empty", there ARE reasons for the use of these frequencies. While CB folks are accustomed to the noise and constant jabber, utility stations (includes the military) may make a quick contact with only a few words and it's over and done. It may not even done with VOICE. It may done with various tone protocols to turn on or off other communications assets. It also may have to do with economics and the very short range nature of 26-29 MHZ which is ideal for certain applications. Communications does have to be super-duper, mystical, modes and sophistocated ultra-high frequency gadgets and whizz=bang stuff.

There is a search and rescue arm of the US Air Force that maintains frequencies below 27 MHZ. Why? It is called Frequency Utilization and Allocation. That band is excellent for short range, low power communications--even with walkie talkies (subject to NTIA and USAF approval)--for close-in base operations such as flight line, message runners, various staff assigments, tote board (keeping track of incoming and outgoing aircraft and vehicles, and keeping the Incident Commander abreast of his resources and info into and out of the base. The other VHF and HF circuits can be extremely busy and their capacity to pass traffic can be severely overloaded Most of the tactical comm are done on VHF FM. You DON'T want to start using StatCom (Strategic Communications) HF because you don't WANT everybody to hear what you are doing, and you don't want to interfere with another emergency going on 3 states over. By using low power (from 5 to 100 watts depending on the need) and 20 to 26 MHZ, you can miminize interference and increase the overall effectiveness of the mission (makes those Colonels happy! ) Another reason this is used is it keeps snoopy news media and ambulance chasers out of the way. By using SSB (even 10 watt AM) and coded messages (Lima Tango *could* mean Located Target, etc.- determined at initial mission briefing and changed each day to prevent scanner listeners from knowing what's up, doc!) How would you like to learn on your scanner that your Daddy died in a plane crash before the authorities could gently inform you of the tragedy. It has happened.

The point is, the military DOES use HF (and 26-27 MHZ is high HF) and it sometimes isn't so magical as you might guess! If you could access USAF's MainSail HF network (not secure), you'd find it is the biggest HF worldwide "repeater" anywhere!
FUN to listen to, too! (No, you'll have to find it for yourself--maybe on Google, I don't know. I just ain't tellin' ) The purposes for which they use ALL their radio resources are from the standpoint of mission accomplishment and THEIR own view of achieving that goal. What WE want from the standpoint of what we SEE is a hobby is unimportant in the overall picture of the RF world. It simply doesn't count. What COUNTS is lives being saved, property being safeguarded, and cost mimimized. And that is part of the equation--even if *YOU* don't hear a word on the so-called "freeband". It is there for when it IS needed.

73

CWM

 

[C W Morse]

OK, I just checked. There IS a link about Main Sail.

http://www.milaircomms.com/ghfs.html

Go try it!


CWM

 

[yama junk owna]

CW, 11175 is the busiest of the Aircom freqs with many others of course, some up in the 20 somethings not sure about 26 somethings but guess there could be some also. But I have got a question for you, in the area between 27.405 and 28.000 can you find anyone that uses these freqs? I know that they are assigned to this that and the other, but what I want to know is who still uses them, when and where, what modes? Not hearsay or this said that, I want real info as to what freqs are used and what it takes to listen to what is being transmited even if it is data or some tone just tell me where to look.

 

[snoope]

CWM,

If you walked into my house,sat down and turned the TV on......you would be asked if you would like something to drink and eat ..... ....You would not be shot or thrown out... ..For those that have the courage to enter a "Mans" house as a guest instead of a "Thief" would be treated as such.....That may be how I see using "Other channels",am I really stealing???......Sorry if this answer disappoints you BUT I still believe in......."Do onto others as you wish them to do for you".....Even if we agree to disagree about "RADIOSSSSSSSS".......

Happy New Year to all......


Snoope back hiding in the snow............

 

[C W Morse]

ps, if given the legal opportunity I bet most extra class hams and radio engineers couldn't begin to build 50kw suburbans to run on 27mhz, much less 12 meter fm

THIS ham wouldn't want to because I don't WANT or need all that RF around me. It's like setting your house on fire to toast marshmallows! :shock:

CWM

 

[C W Morse]

CWM,

If you walked into my house,sat down and turned the TV on......you would be asked if you would like something to drink and eat ..... ....You would not be shot or thrown out... ..For those that have the courage to enter a "Mans" house as a guest instead of a "Thief" would be treated as such.....That may be how I see using "Other channels",am I really stealing???......Sorry if this answer disappoints you BUT I still believe in......."Do onto others as you wish them to do for you".....Even if we agree to disagree about "RADIOSSSSSSSS".......

Happy New Year to all......

Now let's be realistic. You would not convince me that if a person just walked in your house while you were away and helped himself to TV or anything else he saw fit you would not be offended. It is illegal and wrong for a reason and it is why we have laws against breaking and entering regardless of one's intent. It is the same reason we have laws that restrain you from operating your radio just anywhere you want to. While you are yapping on "other channels", you may be interfering with someone trying to get word to rescue authorities. You don't KNOW the harm you could be causing simply because you can't HEAR other stations. It is the same reason farmers build fences to keep cattle from straying away. Those "fences" WRT radio accomplish the same thing, and if you are heard talking on 'them channels' that you think you have some "right" to yap on, you will eventually suffer the consequences . Sort of like that would-be ham out in California that was arrested and convicted of interfering with Amateur, police, and Coast Guard communications.

Most people don't want you walking in their houses and availing themselves of what belongs to them, and the rightful users don't want you jabbering in 'channels' you have no right to or permission (license) to use! :evil: Sooner or later IF your
"couple clicks up" is within the ham bands you will be heard, and the hams will track you down and turn you in, then sleep very well the next day. That's just way it is.

CWM



Snoope back hiding in the snow............

 

[C W Morse]

CW, 11175 is the busiest of the Aircom freqs with many others of course, some up in the 20 somethings not sure about 26 somethings but guess there could be some also. But I have got a question for you, in the area between 27.405 and 28.000 can you find anyone that uses these freqs? I know that they are assigned to this that and the other, but what I want to know is who still uses them, when and where, what modes? Not hearsay or this said that, I want real info as to what freqs are used and what it takes to listen to what is being transmited even if it is data or some tone just tell me where to look.

yama,

Here it is!

Freeband Allocations
(25 - 30 Mhz.)




25.020...................................................................U.S. Army
25.035...................................................................U.S. Army
25.040...................................................................Oil Spills Cleanup
25.069...................................................................U.S. Navy
25.080...................................................................U.S. Coast Guard
25.085...................................................................U.S. Navy-Ships
25.090...................................................................U.S. Navy-Ships
25.095...................................................................U.S. Navy-Ships
25.100...................................................................U.S. Navy-Ships
25.105...................................................................U.S. Navy-Ships
25.110...................................................................U.S. Navy-Ships
25.111...................................................................U.S. Navy
25.130...................................................................U.S. Air Force
25.161...................................................................U.S. Air Force
25.198...................................................................U.S. Air Force
25.230...................................................................Inter-Military Freq.
25.240...................................................................U.S. Army
25.245...................................................................U.S. Air Force
25.333...................................................................U.S. Air Force
25.335...................................................................U.S. Marine Corps
25.340...................................................................U.S. Air Force
25.350...................................................................Inter-Military Freq.
25.360...................................................................U.S. Navy
25.365...................................................................Inter-Military Freq.
25.380...................................................................U.S. Coast Guard
25.390...................................................................U.S. Army
25.400...................................................................Inter-Military Freq.
25.410...................................................................U.S. Navy
25.412...................................................................U.S. Navy
25.415...................................................................U.S. Coast Guard
25.425...................................................................U.S. Army
25.430...................................................................U.S. Dept. of Energy
25.440...................................................................U.S. Navy
25.450...................................................................U.S. Army
25.470...................................................................U.S. Navy/Air Force
25.480...................................................................U.S. Navy
25.515...................................................................U.S. Navy/Air Force
25.525...................................................................U.S. Air Force
25.535...................................................................U.S. Army
25.550...................................................................U.S. Army
25.575...................................................................U.S. Navy
25.590...................................................................U.S. Navy
25.597...................................................................U.S. Air Force
25.845...................................................................U.S. Marine Corps
26.110...................................................................U.S. Navy
26.310...................................................................U.S. Navy
26.356...................................................................U.S. Air Force
26.389...................................................................U.S. Air Force
26.485...................................................................U.S. Navy
26.490...................................................................U.S. Navy
26.500...................................................................Inter-Military Freq.
26.510...................................................................U.S. Army
26.515...................................................................U.S. Navy
26.540...................................................................U.S. Navy
26.550...................................................................Inter-Military Freq.
26.560...................................................................U.S. Navy
26.575...................................................................U.S. Army
26.580...................................................................U.S. Navy
26.590...................................................................U.S. Air Force
26.610...................................................................U.S. Navy/Marine Corps
26.615...................................................................U.S. Navy
26.620...................................................................Civil Air Patrol
26.625...................................................................U.S. Air Force
26.630...................................................................U.S. Army
26.650...................................................................U.S. Navy
26.665...................................................................U.S. Navy
26.675...................................................................U.S. Navy
26.684...................................................................U.S. Air Force
26.700...................................................................U.S. Army
26.710...................................................................U.S. Air Force
26.725...................................................................U.S. Marine Corps
26.750...................................................................U.S. Navy/Air Force
26.775...................................................................U.S. Marine Corps
26.800...................................................................Border Patrol
26.825...................................................................U.S. Navy
26.835...................................................................U.S. Navy
26.850...................................................................U.S. Navy/Army
26.875...................................................................U.S. Navy
26.880...................................................................Border Patrol
26.900...................................................................Inter-Military Freq.
26.925...................................................................U.S. Navy/Army
26.930...................................................................U.S. Navy/Marine Corps
26.945...................................................................Federal Aviation Admin.
27.545...................................................................U.S. Navy
27.550...................................................................U.S. Navy/Army
27.565...................................................................U.S. Navy/Army
27.575...................................................................F.C.C.
27.585...................................................................F.C.C.
27.590...................................................................U.S. Coast Guard
27.595...................................................................U.S. Navy
27.600...................................................................U.S. Navy/Army
27.615...................................................................U.S. Navy
27.625...................................................................Federal Aviation Admin.
27.630...................................................................N.A.S.A.
27.650...................................................................U.S. Navy/Army
27.655...................................................................U.S. Navy
27.675...................................................................U.S. Army
27.700...................................................................U.S. Navy/Army
27.715...................................................................U.S. Navy
27.725...................................................................N.A.S.A.
27.745...................................................................U.S. Navy
27.750...................................................................U.S. Navy/Army
27.775...................................................................U.S. Army
27.785...................................................................U.S. Coast Guard
27.794...................................................................U.S. Army
27.800...................................................................U.S. Navy/Army
27.825...................................................................U.S. Army
27.850...................................................................U.S. Navy/Army
27.870...................................................................U.S. Air Force
27.875...................................................................U.S. Army
27.900...................................................................U.S. Army
27.925...................................................................U.S. Army
27.950...................................................................U.S. Navy/Army
27.964...................................................................U.S. Navy
27.975...................................................................U.S. Army
27.980...................................................................U.S. Coast Guard Reserve
27.995...................................................................U.S. Army
28.000 - 29.700..........................................................10 Meter Amateur Band
29.895...................................................................U.S. Navy
29.900...................................................................Air Force One
29.905...................................................................Inter-Military Project


It doesn't MATTER *IF* you hear anything, *WHEN* you hear something nor ever hear a peep. These are assigned frequencies the same way I have a yard rake in my shed. I may never even use it, but it don't give ya the right to borrow it without permission!

CWM

 

[snoope]

CWM,

DID YOU NOT READ MY POST

There was someone at home.....Who would ask you if you needed something..........If there were no one home you would be the "THIEF" :roll: :roll: .....This is why you and I will never see eye to eye on RADIOOOOOOOOO...

You keep on "Ranting" and I'll keep on Trucking..........

44 minutes to the New Year...I hope yours is a good one I know mine will be


Snoope back hiding in the snow.......

 

[Peddler]

-... . ... .. -.. . ... / -.-- --- ..- / .-.. . ..-. - / --- ..- - / .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. .-. . --.- ... / -... . - .-- . . -. / ..--- -.... .-.-.- ----. ....- ..... / - --- / ..--- --... .-.-.- ..... ....- ..... --..-- / .. / --. ..- . ... ... / - .... --- ... . / .- .-. . / --- -.- .-.-.- .-.-.- .-.-.- .-.. --- .-.. .-.-.-

 

[Sonwatcher]

LOL Peddler, I noticed that. Do ya think so ?

 

[frmboybuck]

Must be if he said so fellas......Glad I dont have a "regular" cb or I wouldnt be able to use those

 

[bandaid kid]

-... . ... .. -.. . ... / -.-- --- ..- / .-.. . ..-. - / --- ..- - / .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. .-. . --.- ... / -... . - .-- . . -. / ..--- -.... .-.-.- ----. ....- ..... / - --- / ..--- --... .-.-.- ..... ....- ..... --..-- / .. / --. ..- . ... ... / - .... --- ... . / .- .-. . / --- -.- .-.-.- .-.-.- .-.-.- .-.. --- .-.. .-.-.-

I can't "read" this stuff! I learned code strictly by ear and "written" code means nothing to me at all! Ywt I can copy Morse by ear to 20+ wpm on the radio on a good day.

73