CB jargon on the amateur bands

[Captain Kilowatt]

Quick question, how have the self appointed band cops worked out so far?

Answer: They just add to the general garbage on the band, now instead of a couple guys talking like fools, you got a third (or more) in there arguing with them giving them the attention they crave for which they always come back for more. Then the cherry on top is the band cop complains to the FCC, who then feels compelled to listen to this garbage (which they usually just ignore). Eventually they (the FCC) will ask themselves exactly why did we give these half wits all this bandwidth? Then may favourite question, why should we have to do all this work to police a band that makes no money for us?

So personally I disagree that somehow a stranger over the ether is going to change these wayward amateurs. Now if someone is obviously having difficulty on the radio and truly just doesn't seem to know then by all means help the guy out.

I'm not talking about the band cops that look for every little thing, they are just A-holes themselves I agree. I mean the guy monitoring the local repeater that constantly hears someone ask what another's 10-20 is or asks for a "radidio" check because he just wired up his D104 to his Icom 2m rig and is so over deviated he is causing the repeater to drop out.There is being a band cop a-hole and then there is being an elmer on the air. They are two completely different attitudes.

 

[Wire Weasel]

Do you really want to pay tax dollars out of your pocket (and mine) to make sure that the correct grammar and lingo is being used on the HAM bands?

Hi 359

This isn't my thread. Colorful radio conversation is my forte'. I was referring to other and more egregious rule breaking. A situation seems to have to get absurdly bad for the FCC to do something about it and even then sometimes they don't do anything.

Thanks

 

[Hutch]

The problem is that what some amateurs find egregious really don't matter that much and really are protocol issues such as using different terminology, even swearing.

Here are the big issues;

1. Causing interference to another licensed user.
2. Transmitting outside the provisions of ones licence.
3. Transmitting without a licence.

All of these things will get you the attention of the FCC, other than that they don't care if one old coot doesn't like the fact that some other old coot uses 10-20, 10-4, Roger or whatever (which are acceptable terms in other professional radio services by the way).

If someone is calling and he has a terrible signal (quality wise) then sure go ahead answer if you like and tell him that he is over driven, or whatever. Thats not what has been discussed on here from the beginning. This discussion started talking about a group of people using language and terms that some don't like. I still stand by my initial posting if I hear something I don't like, I simply don't participate in it.

I personally prefer plain language on the radio, I don't use "handle" it's my name, actually I hate the use of the term "ham" I prefer amateur radio operator, but that's just me. If you're talking to me and say your handle is Jim, I answer with my name is Richard. My one indulgence is using QSL, I work DX on 20m and it seems to be the accepted practice, it works well it's easily understood by english and non english speakers alike. I try not to use it in local rag chew conversation or on the repeater, it's not needed in those situations.

 

[Wire Weasel]

I agree with what you're saying here Hutch

Now you have to acknowledge that your personal preferences only have meaning to you.

Everybody's personal preferences in how they talk and the terminology they choose to use "have to be accepted" by everyone. Or not. We all have the choice not to communicate with another station if we don't like how they are communicating.

All comes back down to..... spin the dial

Fortunately there are enough operators out there that one can usually find more than one somebodys out there that share, or have enough in common, operations practice wise, to engage in satisfactory communication with.

Towards the conversation style that one doesn't prefer....spin the dial. The internet is full of complaint threads just like this one. It doesn't seem to accomplish anything other than keep folks in typing practice.

 

[RickC.]

Interesting comments, and thanks.

During the years that the no code license was being debated, one of the big arguments was that it would open the floodgates and let in all sorts of riff raff. I can't say I've seen that on a grand scale, and I think there was agreement among most eventually that a no code avenue was going to be needed for the hobby to survive.

That said, there are obviously those on the air today who have no understanding of the traditions and history of the hobby. That's not something that can be legislated. Maybe it is just a sign of the times, but even when I came up as a novice in the 70s, paying those dues in the novice bands taught me a lot. I had come from CB also, and was used to talking (and was a teenage disk jockey at the local station-- had my First Class Phone before I had my Novice ticket), and had "talked skip" a bit-- Wisconsin was a BIG deal then. But even as a kid, I had the sense of participating in something bigger than I was and didn't see "working" toward a General as work. That's just what you had to do to get there, and in the meantime you got to build antennas, exchange QSL cards (my novice QSL cards are some of my most prized possessions), have actual QSOs with people in Europe, and even in my small town got to learn from fellows who's had their tickets since the 1940s.

I'm not saying everybody has to be like me, OK-- it's just pretty clear to me that those elements are missing with a lot of guys today.

As for the no code itself, I have mixed thoughts on that. I was fortunate enough to learn CW when I was 15. But kids have an easier time with that kind of thing, it's like learning to play an instrument. I have seen motivated adults struggle mightily with the code and give up-- with all the demands on their time and attention, they just could NOT make it work, not even at 5 wpm. For those folks, I was glad they had a no code option. For the rest, I'm not sure it was such a good thing.


Rick

 

[Wire Weasel]

Good comments Rick but "thank you very little" {Chevy Chase, Caddyshack} for bringing up the code vs no code thing.

As has been mentioned before, lidding on the bands did not start at the advent of the no code ticket. Every single operator who was ever fined or had an enforcement action taking against them before the no code ticket....was a CW certified ham.

Any proficiency in morris code doesn't make someone a good person much less a good radio operator. It's just an operating mode, one of many.

Anyone who advocates a return to "the good ol' days" is but a dreamer. We are all compelled to go forward from where we find ourselves. The past is utterly unchangeable. All there is is the future, and the ever-present NOW.

Desire to make things better? Good for you! Lead by example. The old saying is true: Many "bad" things happen because "good" people stand by and do nothing. When all else fails....wait for it....wait for it....wait for it....almost there....wait.....gimmee a second.....wait for it.....

SPIN THE DIAL !!!

 

[Hutch]

I agree that using code as a litmus test to allow one to operate on the bands is as silly as saying that you can't operate because you don't know networking protocol, can't program a handheld, or don't know how voice over IP works. Those things are just as relevant to the hobby, and some might say even more so, than morse code is today. No one ever suggested that amateurs have to prove that they are current with modern modes and equipment (might not be a bad thing though).

In my profession I have to stay current and earn recertification points during a particular period to keep my certification. Maybe this is something that should be looked at. They need not be onerous, they could be as simple as participating in events, meetings, exercises, and taking other courses that could be relevant. The other thing about recertification it encourages participation, which this hobby could use.

Example in a 5 year period one has to earn say 30 points.

You get 1 point for every club meeting you attend (lets say 10/yr are available)
You get 1 point for each day of field day you operate (2 points/yr)
You get 1 point for every contest you operate and have submitted
You get 2 points for every volunteer event you work
You get 1-5 points for college level courses you take
You get 2 points for every thing device or antenna that you build
You get 2 points per year for being a volunteer examiner
You get 2 points for every amateur radio class that you actually teach (1 point for assisting with the course)

Things like this could keep the hobby vibrant rather than just having lots of license holders on dead bands.

Then there is always the option that if you don't want to collect the recertification points you can just rewrite the test (thats what my professional body allows) to remain certified.

 

[Wire Weasel]

Nah Hutch....apples and oranges man....Mmmmm BANANAS !!!

Your example is a job. Face it everybody, ham radio is a hobby. Make it too hard to play and the kids will stay away....hence the historic lessening of licensing requirements over the years.

Guy: Well my time is almost up...gotta go back to the community college and get my refresher update certification so I can keep weaving baskets at home in my spare time

 

[RickC.]

Well you know, Hutch has an interesting approach. I wouldn't favor it for much the reason WW says, I have to do that kind of thing for work, and amateur radio is my refuge from such things. I can tolerate that stuff if a paycheck is attached to it!

I've thought about this some more (which is dangerous), and I'm asking myself: What is different then than now? And more importantly-- What sets me apart from people like the guy in GA I listened to? Am I better than him-- no. Am I smarter than people like that-- well, some of 'em, maybe. And I agree that just being a CW operator does not make someone a better operator.

But I think rather than an intellectual or social strata difference, it's more of a cultural difference (in the radio context) between myself and those folks, and the apprenticeship spent pounding brass and all the other things I mentioned helped shape that. It would seem to me that those going from CB to amateur radio would be doing so because they want to graduate to something better, more varied, and yes, more technical. But for whatever reason, time spent in the no code Tech world does not seem to be having the same effect on many.

 

[Hutch]

There is a pay check attached, it's in the form of being allowed to use vast sections of very expensive radio spectrum. Believe me as governments look to find a quick buck the spectrum is going to look very attractive to them. The fact that it's populated by a bunch that can't seem to get along and don't seem to be utilizing it to it's fullest potential will make it even more attractive, 220 should serve as an example.

In the beginning the hobby advanced technology and that was justification for the spectrum. As things have become ever more complex amateurs advancing the technology have become rare. The only thing that justifies the spectrum now is using the spectrum to advance public communications, such as using it for volunteer events, emergencies and such. Personally i don't think it's such a big thing to ask people to actually use the spectrum for the reason that it has been given, contrary to some people ideas it isn't given for amateurs to talk about what ails them or attack one another on the air.

 

[RickC.]

Points taken. Tell you what though, the local club (largest in the state) meets about a mile from my house, twice a month. I went to exactly ONE meeting, not knowing anyone, and happened to walk into a political fight. I have not been back, and I won't be. If I want that, I'll go to the office! That's the main objection I have to a points system requiring certain actions.

My interest is primarily HF, there are few folks after that these days.

 

[Sonwatcher]

You also have to consider the amount of new voices on the air. This is the Ham activity in the past year.

Last 12 Months
[FONT=verdana, helvetica, arial]
[/FONT]All Updates*......109,364
New Amateurs.......31,957
Callsign Changes....8,156
Class Changes......14,856
No Longer Licensed.23,340

Hamdata FCC Information

Couple that with the increase in conditions and you may be hearing people you normally haven't heard as well visa versa. And a lot may have a CB background.

Hey CK, Take a look-

US Amateurs- 734,299
New in the past year- 31,957

Canadian Amateurs- 68,061

The amount of new US amateurs in the past year is almost half of Canada's total.

[FONT=verdana, helvetica, arial][FONT=verdana, helvetica,arial]US [/FONT][/FONT]

 

[mechanic]

I've been a HAM for the last 22 years and in that time I have seen many changes. I started out as a CBer and before that I was and still am a SWL.
I still consider myself a CBer as it was my "roots" and have many friends who are not HAMs on the 11 meter band.
Radio is dynamic and that means it is and will change but not to everyone's liking. The transition to amateur radio from CB means a blend and language is the bag and baggage.
It will all even out and if one does not like the manner then make changes such as an Elmer would do.

But keep the peace!

73 mechanic

 

[jazzsinger]

If it wasn't for the influx of cb'ers onto the ham bands in recent years ham radio would be drawing its final breaths around now,maybe just maybe a few nuggets using cb jargon is a small price to pay for actually having someone to talk too on the amateur bands.It's the snobbery on the ham bands that was killing it off,who cares how someone talks as long as they have interesting conversation to make?

As for self policing,its ironic those that choose to do that are the most hypocritical egotistical numbnuts you will ever come across on air be it ham radio or cb radio,put your own house in order before you go trying to sort everyone elses out is my motto.

 

[GnG8d]

It's the snobbery on the ham bands that was killing it off,who cares how someone talks as long as they have interesting conversation to make?

LOL, I've looked at eham and other places before buying a few pieces of gear for guidance.

And over time, I've seen reviews similar to this ...........

"this is a nice piece of gear that is no longer made, so it's a good buy if you can get one that no trailer living, cigarette smoking, beer drinking CB'er owned first"

I *think* that some hams probably live in trailers, smoke cigarettes and drink beer as well as some CB'ers. So WTF, why the judgments?

This has always been my hangup on going ham. I live on a small farm, I smoke cigarettes and I sip good Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey ........ so where does that leave me? CB or HAM?

Anyway, you can have spread spectrum, over modulated, tear up everything operators on all bands, I don't see where elitism helps anybodies cause.

I am happy that this forum is open to both CB and HAM without any (many) predispositions because lets face it, the old test or new doesn't make a good radio operator.