Clicking noise on new President Lincoln II+

[TimmyTheTorch]

Just fired up my new Lincoln today after getting a new Maco V58 assembled, tuned and installed.

The Maco V58 had SWR readings 6 feet off the ground of 1.3:1 on channel 1, 1.1:1 on channel 20 and 1.2:1 on channel 40. I messed with it for quite a while but this was the best I could do. Then I had some friends help me get it up on a 30 foot pole. The SWR stayed about the same on channels 1 and 20 but climbed to 1.5:1 on channel 40. That's not bad enough for me to consider taking it down again yet to try to drop a few decimals off the channel 40 SWR.

The mast is grounded and the RG-213 coax is grounded too via a MFJ 272 - Lightning Surge Protector. I am using a new Pyramid PSV-300 power supply on a dedicated 20 amp, 120 volt circuit. A new MFJ-800 SWR/wattmeter is inline too. Patch cables are new 2 foot lengths of RG8x.

All I am getting right now is a solid S5-7 of static and clicking on all CB channels. If I turn the RF gain down a bit I am just left with the clicking. On some non-CB frequencies I sampled listening to I get the static and clicking while on others I do not (they are very quiet). I was not getting this static and clicking when the antenna was only 6 feet in the air during tuning. The antenna is not near any metallic structures, no power lines (they are all underground), etc.

Here's what it sounds like on AM:



And on LSB:



Here's a sample of some frequencies where I get the static and clicking:

25.215
26.185
26.965 to 27.405
27.855

Here's a sample of some frequencies where I do NOT get the static and clicking:

24.895
28.485
29.395
29.485
29.805

I went around the house and turned off all LED lights and dimming lights because I have had them cause noise in a shortwave radio before but it made no difference now. The NB/ANL make no appreciable difference.

Do you think this is just the current atmospherics or could it be something in the radio or power supply or SWR meter or new RG-213 coax or new Maco V58 antenna?

I must say I am quite deflated with what I am hearing right now. I sure hope I can resolve this issue quickly.

This stuff is replacing a President HR2510 and Maco M103C that was lost in a bad storm.

 

[FlatlandBusa]

Does turning on the noise blanker reduce the racket?

 

[TimmyTheTorch]

The NB/ANL does dull the racket a bit on AM but SSB is unusable between the clicking and static. I am going to try using a car battery instead of the PSU and see if anything changes. Then maybe my Stryker antenna instead of the Maco and see if that changes anything. I live out in a small country subdivision with large lots so it's not like we're all crammed in here.

I got RG213 coax from a reputable seller so I hope that it is okay.

Fun times. And thanks for checking to make sure I tried the built-in features (sincerely, not being a wise guy).

 

[Blackcat630]

I would definitely try removing the power supply from the picture. Hook it up to a battery and check for the noise. If it's still present turn off ALL your breakers. If the noise dissappears..turn them on individually while checking to see when it returns. This will guide you to your source if it's your problem.

If you turn off everything and still have the noise on the battery you have to begin searching further out from your home..

 

[9C1Driver]

New radio, coax, and antenna so it's hard to eliminate one right off. Probably have to run the Lincoln in a mobile or on a friends base to see if it still has the same issue. And then try a different radio on your base to see if the problem is gone or still there. It will be a process of elimination to figure it out.

 

[Handy Andy]

Sounds like a car engine idle - bad wires.

So to me, this may be more of an atmospheric event.

That rapid tat-tat-tat reminds me of the automotive spark plug wiring and or a bad insulator on a local pole.

Which then leads me to the rabbit hole of when you did not hear it when it was closer to the ground - the home/yard provided a means to shield this EMI - so as you brought it up into free air, the noise appeared.

So power lines and then the homes own service entry needs inspection

 

[TimmyTheTorch]

So far I have eliminated the power supply at least as the primary source (but I think I will upgrade to a better quality one at some point in the near future). I'm now running the radio off a 12 volt battery out of my F150 and have the same clicking noise and hash. I had a battery with a broken post explode in my bedroom when I was a kid back in the late 1970s trying to run a linear so I really don't want to keep this battery inside longer than necessary. The event did wonders for the carpet, bedding, curtains, my clothes, hearing...

As soon as my wife and kids leave today I'll be shutting off the power in the house and working my way through the panel.

I'm not sure yet if I want the noise to still be there or not be there when I kill the power to the whole house. Worst case scenario is it's completely external to my setup i.e. environmental/neighbors, but a lot of steps to go through before that decision though.

It's a bit cold and snowy today so it's a good day to do this type of indoor mucking about.

 

[TimmyTheTorch]

Sounds like a car engine idle - bad wires.

So to me, this may be more of an atmospheric event.

That rapid tat-tat-tat reminds me of the automotive spark plug wiring and or a bad insulator on a local pole.

Which then leads me to the rabbit hole of when you did not hear it when it was closer to the ground - the home/yard provided a means to shield this EMI - so as you brought it up into free air, the noise appeared.

So power lines and then the homes own service entry needs inspection

Yeah, the noise reminds me of the pre-resistor plugs I had in a Chevy Vega when I had a mobile in it about 100 years ago.

I do not recall hearing this clicking noise at all when it was first about 10 feet off the ground and then 5 feet off the ground after I first tested the SWR and saw I was going to need to get to the section to change the antenna height a bit. The DX was really rolling here yesterday AM so I did have a lot of general QRM on 11 meter and figured that it was just the DX rumble.

The closest above ground power lines are about 1/2 mile away. I can see them down the hill along the highway. A substation is about 1/3 mile away with all underground service.

 

[TimmyTheTorch]

Some success to report.

I was able to track down the source of the clicking noise to two specific circuits... one in the den upstairs and one in the family room in the basement. I pondered for a second about what those two have in common when I clued in. The den upstairs is where a PC is with the cable modem and main router. The family room downstairs has a TV connected to the upstairs network via a D-Link ethernet over power adapter. It's been that way since we had the basement finished about 6 years ago. I had intended to change that but promptly forgot all about it. My office is in the basement now and there's a very good network down there so the powerline adapter is not even needed now.

After unplugging the adapter from the outlet in the den I turned on that circuit and left the family room one off. No clicking noise! Then I turned on the one for family room and click click click. I unplugged the adapter from the outlet in the family room and the clicking stopped. All circuits are on again and no clicking, even using the Pyramid power supply and all the LED Christmas lights twinkling away.

I still have about s5-s7 of static but that is the same running off the battery or PSU. I'm hearing Ireland, England and Wales on 39 LSB so obviously the environment is active. I'll see what happens to it in the next few days.

I have a feeling next spring I will again have a 40 foot tower and something like a horizontal M104C under the Maco up again. This hobby is hard to quit!

Thanks to the kind folks here for reminding this old dog not to overlook the obvious and to take a methodical approach.

 

[Handy Andy]

Good to see this...

So, the result was from you placing the radios antenna closer to an upper level of the house - and by proximity to it is what you were hearing - a faulty Wi-Fi and/ or router signal.

Or you were able to get away from one source of noise, only to discover the other one's level of noise - by less proximity, relocating the antenna away - allowed the more specific band of noise to appear.

There was some bad press about power over ethernet - this is a personal story of it.

Woof...

I posted earlier that you may not need to inspect your home service, just that you can - by sight alone - see a source of noise from the substation.

As todays Cellphones are getting better, you may have one sensitive enough to catch arcing across insulators like those in the substation - you might need to track down stuff like this as you get your antenna up higher, for the noise floor will drop but you may wind up turning the house around to find out that a substations' bad insulator - is now drowning out your ability to DX.

 

[TimmyTheTorch]

Good to see this...

So, the result was from you placing the radios antenna closer to an upper level of the house - and by proximity to it is what you were hearing - a faulty Wi-Fi and/ or router signal.

Or you were able to get away from one source of noise, only to discover the other one's level of noise - by less proximity, relocating the antenna away - allowed the more specific band of noise to appear.

There was some bad press about power over ethernet - this is a personal story of it.

Woof...

Hmmm, is "power over ethernet" the same as "ethernet over power"? Some of the security cameras we use are POE and have either a POE injector or connect to a switch that supports POE. The DLink adapters I just removed are ethernet over the power lines in the house. Back to learning mode.

I don't know the answer to your question about the antenna position with respect to the source. When I was setting up the antenna the coax was 95 percent outside the house (100 feet of RG213, 95 feet outside and 5 feet going from the patio door to the dining room table). The power supply was plugged into the same home source and the radio itself was about 10 feet from one of the DLink adapters.

I also can't 100 percent remove the possibility that the clicking noise did actually exist to some degree in with the rest of the QRM when I was tuning the SWR on the antenna but I was so focused on that part that the clicking noise didn't really register. The human brain is an interesting contraption and makes eyewitness testimony (at least mine) a bit dodgy at times.

 

[Handy Andy]

As you gather up the parts to continue the build of the station, so will you also gather your wits about the systems limitations.

Through observations and your work, the ambient noise level will change on a daily basis and with the seasons - you will find challenges in any setup but you're well on your way to developing a good system.

POE systems versus the standard routers - are an on-going battle of rights as well as operational "well-being" with contentions in every system, the POE and hardwire, direct wire systems using copper are being more replaced by fiber and public domain WiFi hubs - so the security of one's own systems becomes more of the concern and with these devices and their noise adding to you ambient noise levels - you're in for a fight to have a system that works in both PC (digital) and in RF (analog).

 

[TM86]

Hmmm, is "power over ethernet" the same as "ethernet over power"?

Not really. Power over ethernet is usually 48VDC over the ethernet wires, where ethernet over power is introducing RF onto your house wiring.