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Cobra 29 LTD Classic

Hmm.

The best way to put this is, Remove the L22 R56 combo, then try again...

upload_2021-2-5_18-30-31.png

You're going to have to experiment...with Resistor values to use. In a post above, a YTuber put together a show for the rest of us using those values in his hands in the Screengrab.

So you'll have to try making this work with what you want to work with and mods if any done to the radio to make the MOSFET work in this scenario.

Use the LOWER value resistor of your EKL - in my above Pics is that 470 ohm ON THE DIODE stem of the part.

The 3.3K was an ARBITRARY value due to the level of input capacitance used.

If your input Cap is 220pF - you need some resistance there to make it work to Push us the RF level to be rectified to obtain a voltage.

Helped someone a long time ago at CB Tricks - this might also provide you some insight...
Cobra19LTDMOSFETMODS.jpg
Use as you wish...

you asked...
Could you send me a link to the Bi-Polar to Mosfet conversion?

The information changes a lot - in the past few years several MOSFETs' have shown different responses and failures, so to be honest, you DON'T want to use old data, you may want to do a search around this site for MOSFET you'll see I've posted several pages...so look around the Forums here - the info here is more current.
 
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Hello One and All!

Any chance of getting some help on a Cobra 29 LTD Classic?

This radio belongs to a friend who I am only trying to help. I will not be
charging for any parts or even my time, I am just trying to do a good deed as he does
not have a lot of money anyway.

This unit has had the TFX75 module installed. I would like to put the radio back to stock, all
but the final transistor. I have not been into Radio for a long time and I really don't know what the latest
mod or upgrades that are out there. Also where is the best place to go for parts? (Mouser, Newark, Rf Parts, Master Electronics, Allied Electronics, any others ?)

I am thinking an IR520 Mosfet as I do not have the original final to put back.

Also I have searched a Cobra 29 schematics and I believe I have the parts list to replace the original parts,
all but L12 which is an inductor of an unknown value.

C8 15pf
c57 2pf ???
R56 22 ohms
C42 1000uf at 25 volts ( will install a higher voltage though)
R48 100K
L12 with no idea
Date of manufacture is Feb 07

Thank you to anyone who can help.
 
Hello One and All!

Any chance of getting some help on a Cobra 29 LTD Classic?

This radio belongs to a friend who I am only trying to help. I will not be
charging for any parts or even my time, I am just trying to do a good deed as he does
not have a lot of money anyway.

This unit has had the TFX75 module installed. I would like to put the radio back to stock, all
but the final transistor. I have not been into Radio for a long time and I really don't know what the latest
mod or upgrades that are out there. Also where is the best place to go for parts? (Mouser, Newark, Rf Parts, Master Electronics, Allied Electronics, any others ?)

I am thinking an IR520 Mosfet as I do not have the original final to put back.

Also I have searched a Cobra 29 schematics and I believe I have the parts list to replace the original parts,
all but L12 which is an inductor of an unknown value.

C8 15pf
c57 2pf ???
R56 22 ohms
C42 1000uf at 25 volts ( will install a higher voltage though)
R48 100K
L12 with no idea
Date of manufacture is Feb 07

Thank you to anyone who can help.


I have two cobra 29's one is the LTD classic, made in China & the other is a 29 NW ST, made in China. They both have L12 which is a coil close to the antenna connector. These are both scrap radios so if you need part I can un-solder them & mail them to you for free. Let me know. bruce1965@bell.net
 
I have two cobra 29's one is the LTD classic, made in China & the other is a 29 NW ST, made in China. They both have L12 which is a coil close to the antenna connector. These are both scrap radios so if you need part I can un-solder them & mail them to you for free. Let me know. bruce1965@bell.net

Hello Bruce,
This is really nice of you to offer.
I will keep you in mind that's for sure!
Thank you much.
 
Hmm.

The best way to put this is, Remove the L22 R56 combo, then try again...

Hello Andy,

Any chance did you met to say L28 instead of L22 ?

L22 on the schematics that I am looking at is tied into the channel selector and the main Ic chip pin 2. I didn't follow any more of what else it is tied into.

Its a tunable transformer with the ferrite slug.

Without having the original schematics along with maybe the correct "BOM" sheet,
I am burning through unnecessary parts! I am not sure if there are parts or jumpers on here that does or does not belong. I thought I had it somewhat working with about 1.5 watts for a moment until the audio chip over heated and the smoke escaped out of it!!! (Not really smiling when that happen)

Only reason for wanting to install an ir520 mosfet because I could not find any bipolar finals and drivers. Good thing is I am getting an education on these mosfets!

Does anyone know of any substitute at all for these bi-polar transistors?
Even if they are at a lower wattage.
Also does anyone have a cobra 29 that has a build of Feb 07?

Its been a while since I have pulled my hairs on something that should be somewhat
easy. I must be thinking to hard or something.

Signed: frustrated and confused!
 
Ahh, here's the rub I have, I know the board, it parts and layout - and know by sight what to look for.

But when I tell someone this info, based upon the "road map" my mind uses, I see there are the visual cues that many do NOT see like I do...

So what is one to do - or say, or even explain? To me, presenting the schematic, of the part - or photo of the area, even though it's labeled L22 and R56, the part in the photo also represents this same configuration but due to upgrades and technical add-ons and accessories the parts count is now off by several magnitudes..

The Silkscreen is what many a tech needs to go by, I understand that.

I do apologize, but only on my behalf. I cannot apologize for others and their engineering. I somehow manage all this stuff in my head because, I was left to do this, by myself all day, for several decades and the rest of you suffer from it... Long ago I learned - due to the nature of the Cobra Uniden and Realistic boards all having silk-screening of same alphanumeric, the issue becomes amplified when the boards of the same MODEL of radio - add more to the boards than they can keep current in their own schematically-documented archives.

These same chassis have been upgraded and added unto themselves and still are what they are - makes the mess - messy-er, on top of the fact that many of the same Model use just a different Suffix - making the Messy- er - the messiest of any radio brand.

How can I answer?

By writing the following?
  • "When you look at this photo (schematic or Graphical Layout) The thing-ah-mah-jiggy with that doo-dad that's has a whatchamacall-it on it? Yeah, That's the one! That keeps the RF on the board and it has to go thru (you know) those things with the stripes then it went thru that bolted thingnamabob that has the square black face with all those little numbers on it - some of it that says 2078 some even use IRF520. Then you need to remember that those whirly-gigs of curly-Q's of wire afterwards, on that brown straw-form with the slot for the wax coated black stud ? Yes, there by the corner- is where all that goes to...
Chirp - Chirp - Chirp...
R46fc2ff71ec431e64221a4b02a72674c
Ok, this is why I post so many images - seem to repeat over itself, not because of I like doing this, but because it has to be shown what I can relate to while you work on the board you have. We are using this forum to give others a chance to look ahead and realize that even though it's a Cobra 25 or a Cobra 29 or even a Uniden 78 and it's Cousin the PC-66/68 - none of their ROOT manufacturers stayed with the same radio outside - but inside, they did - they simply upgraded - added a number and then suffixed to that to show, Hey! We have a new line (of the same old thing) - new parts just flashy, under same old wrapper..

They put these parts inside - and we're supposed to fix it when it goes bad...

That's is where Documentation fails - the above posts are EXAMPLES of work for others, it's me helping others to accomplish that same feat you're trying to do.

They were successful - we tried to preserve the VALUES and ASPECTS of part orientation - not the exact part numbering- only it's changes to the OEM values to archive the help - just what was done to leave a trail of bread crumbs for others to follow.

Sigh- the boards photos and graphical blandishment posted in #31 above were for a Cobra 19 - but the MOSFET values of the EKL subs' were of the most importance, we then changed several other parts along the audio path of the chassis - so it should have sent up a big flag to let you know the BOARD, and the values of the region in which these were affected these specific spots Are Different and can help you decipher, but if you try to follow too close you can respond like what you just did...so what you see above, is a "Cliff Notes" version of Shakespeare - not the Poet - The Rework of another chassis that uses a similar concept of your thinking of EKL, Limiter and Audio Mode and they make it work by do this...TAH DAH!

Well, this time, it didn't work.
Only reason for wanting to install an ir520 mosfet because I could not find any bipolar finals and drivers. Good thing is I am getting an education on these mosfets!

Here's a link to help you find ways to utilize the MOSFET values used and their part numbers...

President Bill Service Manual | WorldwideDX Radio Forum

In the above thread are posted schematics of the radios that use MOSFET's and are current - the snips provide the user with the METHOD and VALUES of the parts of the Driver and Final as they are configured in that particular radio.

So the MOSFET design, since the CB Tricks days, has changed in how they approach the methodology to make the MOSFET work - some are simple like the EKL, you just have to pay close attention to the values. While others use the EKL but are also supplanted with a bias trickle voltage from the 8 volt TX feed.

Well, my week is shot...

I guess I'll hide in the bushes for a while...

upload_2021-2-9_20-24-15.png
 
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Ok, now that I've got some parts on order, I wanted to take some time here to help others that may still be reviewing this thread - on what all the EKL parts appear as.

To review:
upload_2021-2-11_22-4-24.png
Wanted to show this too...
upload_2021-2-12_1-11-14.png
Also...
upload_2021-2-12_1-5-54.png

In order to understand the one, the other must also be understood.

... The Needs of the Many ...
... Outweigh the Needs of the Few ...
... Or the One...
The Bipolar can generate it's own bias, without the need for an external voltage presence at the Base, as long as it's Base has a means to Drain off power it receives, and GENERATES, so they use a Bias Resistor network to help the Transistor turn on, but not as a switch, but as a LINEAR device by allowing the power flowing into the Base, a means to escape from it as it too - is a Reactive element when you apply an RF power to the "P" Junction of the NPN like the 2078.

As long as you have power that flows into it, and give it a way to flow out of it (Base) the Transistor can work much like a Linear device.

MOSFET's are a little too sensitive to these matters, and require a level of care on their Inputs since the Gate itself is insulated, Isolated from the power flowing in the Substrate underneath it.

They need a voltage presence to generate the Field that makes the "Field effect" part of the MOSFET work, or turn on.. Current can't flow into it, so you need to supplant this power to allow the voltage to appear on the Gate, but let the Current flow thru the Bias in such a fashion that the Gate simply follows the Input thru the Voltage level Change - this can allow the MOSFET to loosely work as a Linear device - you adjust the Voltage by allowing Power to flow thru a DIVIDER circuit that can leave the Gate to see only the Voltage changes - the Current portion of the work, can then flow thru the Divider. You can also apply a Resistor to the Gate lead as needed to reduce the effects the Impedance changes when Current rises faster than the Divider can remove it in certain conditions..

So now, taking the above, we mentioned the BASE of a BJT can generate its' own power thru the PN junction the Collector and Emitter present the Base - all being interconnected directly. IF you let this power flow thru the Bias network properly - the Bipolar can attain a Class of Operation by itself and the Bias - only the power being applied has to have a means to stay limited in levels (controlled Dynamic Range) - so you develop a Bias Network and use Resistance to offset the complex Reactive elements the DC Rectified and AC/RF present. Understand that current and voltage appear during the operational condition in both DC and AC/RF signal.

What we want, is to preserve the shape and condition of the input signal.

Capacitance is often used as a means to provide an RF a way out of the circuit when Power levels and the Bias itself can exceed a given level - it's not as simple as this, but another term to help us in understanding this is ADMITTANCE.
Admittance
In electrical engineering, admittance is a measure of how easily a circuit or device will allow a current to flow. It is defined as the reciprocal of impedance, analogous to how conductance & resistance are defined. The SI unit of admittance is the siemens (symbol S); the older, synonymous unit is mho, and its symbol is ℧ (an upside-down uppercase omega Ω)

The MOSFET only requires the Voltage of those signals to appear on the Gate - and on top of that, you also need a means to allow for the Gate to track the signal not as a power curve, but as a voltage parameter.

The Bias network can be thought of as a work room - The Resistor and Diode - form 1/2 of a Directional Power Divider circuit, the other Resistor then provides the power curve and offsetting Resistive element to balance out the power delivery into the Gate. This tracking needs to be done without saturation or skewing the Voltage - you want the Gate to Follow, or Track the Signals' Voltage condition.

If not carefully considered, current can skew these results and the Gates own Reactive elements of capacitance it presents, can alter the way the signal can enter and produce work.

The Diode and Two Resistors.
upload_2021-2-11_23-15-26.png
They only produce work within themselves
- Note: They loop; from and back into, Ground.
They only function as a means to obtain Directional control and voltage from the input signal.
It's where you tap from, that determines not only the level of voltage to set your Gate's ON Threshold by,
but also the amount of power that remains in the circuit to provide the Voltage follow condition the Gate needs to track to stay linear.​
  • Too much current into the Gate doesn't damage it as much as it will damage the MOSFETS ability to properly follow the voltage results this circuit is supposed to track.
  • In Regards to the Diodes Directional Power flow, Remember too, that the Devices like IRF520 and 13N10 as well as any other type of MOSFET construction, you should follow it's Enhancement type - in these cases of discussion, we are presuming "N-Channel" devices.
So you make the Divider with two parts, one main part, is where you want to set the operation of the Gate to follow. In other words, where do you want to go today can be thought of as the approach. How hard the work is, is the Voltage - so your Resistance then must be thought of as the Effort that must be used to provide it. The Diode simply is a Direction in which to provide the work to flow in.

IF you only had a "cap" - you'd have AC passing into the Gate - and due to the Capacitance the Gate has - it too is a form of work and works AGAINST your signal - two caps in series will exhibit capacitance of less than that of the smallest value component - so now you have TWICE the work effort it takes to even send in work to be done.

That is where the Resistors can take some of the effort the Capacitance has against your work. It can also give your power levels some range of effort to work in, so they too, don't over do it and possibly destroy the Gate.

But you still need Capacitance - large enough, to overcome the "lackadaisical" effects the Gate's own capacitance presses back as. You need to put in extra power to overcome the inertial effects the Gate Capacitance has in this.

So, you set up your system to provide a direction of power, and the Resistors then provide the tap points in which the Gate runs (Operates) or "sees" the turn on voltage for, the other Resistor then simply allows power to be removed from this input Gate condition allowing the Voltage to rise and fall tracking the Signal as it comes into this circuit. The Resistors simply use the Signal as a means to apply an Effort to the power DIRECTION and the Signals' own power level - when Rectified into a DC Voltage becomes the Turn On Threshold parameter.

We then uses the Resistors as a means of Work-effort and to allow power to escape from the circuit. Voltage simply follows the effort - like a pair of eyes that are watching-copying every move, only as a view from the Voltage standpoint.

In the first Graphic, I show that the user placed the Diodes on the back foil pad, and note where the Resistor is.

Since Diodes themselves are semiconductors - they have an inherited Intrinsic trait of appearing as a heavy capacitance "spike" when they are reverse biased. A trait due to their Doping - that can lessen the ability of the Resistors to overcome the capacitive effects the Gate and Input Capacitance has - as well as a Switching issue of noise and a transient spike that will occur during the Didoes Cutoff during an RF cycle or excessive AC input from Audio.

So again, they (look above for Reference) put the Diode at the END of the circuit to provide some distance of it's Intrinsic Reactive Elements. The Ohmic value of the Resistor can offset it by as an effective Resistive controlled effort against Reactive elements and their vectors of power, impeding the directional and input signal power flowing thru the circuit (Buffer).
  • It is easier to think of Gate capacitance as a level of work it will take to make the Gate reflect the input signal.
  • The Higher, or larger value the Gate Capacitance is, the hard it will be to make it work.
  • This means lower (less ohmic) resistor values are needed to lessen the Charge that remains on the Gate itself when the Signal changes in level or direction. It charge has to be removed to allow the Device to track input signal level as a Voltage component.
  • Higher input capacitance can help provide more signal in which to apply the circuit above and obtain the level of control and drive. But the drawbacks are the drive level and the ability of the circuit to skew or degrade the signal.
  • The Diode is required in the circuit to attain a form or direction for power to flow in the circuit and as to WHERE your TAP POINT is, you use the MOSFET's Channel P or N as your Direction.
  • Once Direction is established, and the Gates' Capacitance latent charge can be overcome - then the rest is simply to develop the voltage divider and set your Gates On Threshold.
  • In the Realm of Class Of Operation, this type of circuit being used is more for Class C or Class D type.
  • This design is not effective for SSB use, for low-level signal may be too weak to even attain the Gate's Turn On Threshold voltage to amplify, so then another FEEDER bias approach is needed (like TX Voltage as a means to provide power to supplant this circuit)
  • This design is most effective for FM, AM, PWM and CW use
Even the Banded end, being the Cathode, allows the Above Ground Signal presence (more positive with respect to ground) a means to approach or Admittance allowed - into the Gate and the Field Effect. You do not want to alter the Admittance - at least not without consideration as to how large of the Gates' "plate" will affect the signal as it propagates into the MOSFET.

upload_2021-2-12_7-58-38.png

So you place the more reactive elements of the Bias further away from the Gate - in this example, by placing a resistor in front of the Conjugate-mess the Intrinsic impedance the Diode will appear as.

The Rectification can still occur.

However, the Resistor position within the circuit can help reduce the Diodes reactive effects - yet must have a low ohmic value that allows current to flow into and out of the Bias system and provide the Rise in Voltage necessary to make the Gate work the device linearly..

Voltage will follow the current according to the levels of Resistance (IF properly chosen in Values to offset Reactive properties of Capacitance and Diodes own Rectification) and rise of DC values and is how the Divider; acting as a unit will then let the power flow thru, in both ahead of and behind the Diode in Directional flow or pressure provided by the Rectification that occurs that is the Voltage that it develops.
  • It shows as a difference in charge between the Diodes Junction layers;
    • it's this Charge separation and Voltage rise effect and process we desire,
      • not it's power by the Current the Device can generate.
  • The purpose of the Resistors are to control the AMOUNT of flow as well as the Level of flow; in a given Direction, as well as to allow the current that develops in the circuit a means to leave the circuit without altering the input signal.
    • -. a secondary condition of the Resistors also takes the Diodes Intrinsic switching effects from injecting, affecting the Signal we want to amplify.
  • Capacitance in both the Gate and in the Input level of the Circuit itself - will generate a co-circulating DC current within this circuit, so care must be taken to allow this current - power flow, a means to remain controlled (Empty out of) and remain at a level that does not degrade the Input Signal.
  • That Effort; it's in getting the rise (Admittance and Voltage) and fall (exit of Current) balance by using that Resistor divider. The Values chosen and their placement within the circuit, provides for it, as this mechanism to balance out the Reactive.
  • We then can place the action of direction, or put the RF signal, (a means to "Float") into a more true Balanced condition in the Ground plane "Field effect" of the Gate, as the Field effect occurs over a highly positive charge flowing underneath.
So the AC / RF to DC Balance condition can also be attained by using the Negative Cathode side, the Signal being Positive with respect to Ground condition can also provide the best transfer of Signal by using Negative Voltage field presence to provide the Offset condition; being that these MOSFET's being used here are an N-Channel Device.


EDITS: are for the Verbiage - Ugh!
 

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Remember to include the Diode's inherited Voltage Drop , can also provide the mechanism to increase the Voltage pressure rise in a given direction - so some changes in performance will have to considered as thermal.

While other events that the Diode will exhibit is; in it's Conduction as the Signal gets rectified within it - an effect similar to Avalanche, it is in it's forward Conductance - where the Electrons "jump" or can move thru the gap...into the opposite terminal and out the Diode on the opposite end. Once the gap is crossed, the band gap valence or ability to transfer across is now easier and allows more electrons to migrate across - this can cause a drop in voltage thru a resistor in this divider. A small change but can have an impact, both Positive (Favorable) and Negative (undesired) consequences as you work towards making the Divider balance the work effort to the work load.
.
One thing of many, to keep in mind...
upload_2021-2-12_9-12-9.png
...Current when the Diode conduction makes the Voltage rise...
...Everything is all Fun and Games until the Signals' get hurt...
(The Graphic shows Thermal slope inclusive.)

What is being shown here is when the Diode finally rectifies enough signal to make the Diode not only show POLARITY, but the Rectification it performs, changes into power (now has current) and input signal present can degrade from this now DC-based power curves' appearance.

It is when the Diode conducts and completes the Divider as part of the circuit - you need to take in consideration of the amount of power entering in thru the Input Capacitor. The input levels must maintain a specific level range so you don't force the Diode to rectify too much of the input signal into a power that can't be used in the Bias circuit; instead it's wasted as rising voltage that lowers the Input Capacitors'' ability to transfer the input signal into the Circuit, instead the circuit literally drowns in it's own DC-circulating current from the Rectification the Diode performs.

This can work as an advantage to a point, but you cannot recover the input signal from it. The secondary event is the Latching that the MOSFET does in response to this voltage rise. This is the degradation of signal mentioned in this article. A loss of the ability to amplify. It simply "Latches up" and all the power present for RF at the Drain to Source terminals passes thru the part until the condition is removed, power to the part is turned off or the part self destructs.

So in choosing the values for the Divider, you need to take into account the range of input signal - the dynamics. Make sure you have enough of an input signal to obtain the Gates' Turn On Threshold and hold it on thru the duration the transmission.

Gate Capacitance can play a role here, if the Gate charge region is small, the effort it takes to put in and remove power (as a transfer of charge yes, a current within the device that flows and stays with the Gate and it's lead-in) is also less, it doesn't take a lot of effort.

This is an important factor for choosing the right MOSFET for the job. You can find the information in the devices' Datasheet;

upload_2021-2-12_12-9-22.png
It is important to look for this information. It will help in making this a successful conversion and since the IRF520 is the "Go-To" now for many radios, using this information contained here can help us develop a "template" to find others and their designs they used for BIAS support.

In the DYNAMICS section, you see Input Capacitance which will be the most pivotal of any of the values you see in the chart above.
  • The greater the Input Capacitance - the slower the work output will be, this is a factor of performance - Small signal input linearity will be degraded in the HF band we're looking to use this part in. This number is what your Input Capacitor may need to be to overcome the inherited traits of capacitance on a plate (Gate) that affects the tuning and Useable Signal in both Frequency and Amplitude (signal level)
In the SWITCHING sections, you see the Rise RATE as Turn On time Delay , and Rise Time. Both values are important. One is the ability of how fast the device turns on, as if it were a switch (pulse) and the Rise Time is the ability of the Switch to form a Pulse - more square and not a triangle or sine wave.

upload_2021-2-12_15-12-34.png
  • Switching times may be FAST, but does little good when you have to use large level input signal power to attain and force the Gate to even turn on and faithfully follow the input signal simply due to the Frequency of interest is above the MUF due to Large Gate Capacitance.
    • The Rise and Fall times are Rates in which the substrate can track the input signal.
    • Slow Fall times show up this Gate performance issue and affects or skews the output appearance of the signal - its' not linear nor symmetrical.
  • To determine the "Rise and Fall times" or MUF and the SOA (Maximum Useable Frequency Safe Operation Area) these two go hand in hand for as the rise time may be short, but if the devices' Fall time is too slow, the part remains "on" for longer periods of time - and this affects the Duty cycle as the ability to dissipate power thru the device and keep operating linearly.
To determine the periodic time or amount of time to complete one cycle, it's simply ...
upload_2021-2-12_14-53-35.png
F is your Frequency - T is the time value.

F = 27,000,000 - so what is it's time?
T = 1 / 27,000,000
Periodic of F for 1 cycle is...
T = 0.000000037037 sec
or ~37 nS (Nano seconds)
So we have a working value of time to offer the charts...

Beginning to see how this works?
 
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As I do my research here to help you understand the EKL thingy's :)

I've come across several different issues regarding how to Drive the Gate - with two main components Voltage and the immediate required pulse Current it contains, that if combined correctly, can offer a solution to solve a third.

We talked about Gate Capacitance, a value that the maker arrives to thru testing. This value is important to know because it sets an upper limit to the Maximum Useable Frequency as well as the Safe Operational Area the device can be used in.

The Gate Capacitance in itself can provide a working RANGE to know of it's Speed, as a factor of Rate but how well does it follow a signal arriving to it's Gate? MOSFETS are non-linear - yes, but there are factors the Gate exhibits that can be used as a guide and ability to perform linearly - in your favor.

upload_2021-2-14_12-50-50.png
In this post, I'll be talking more about Region "B".
This region is often called Miller Plateau...
A region many MOSFET Builders act upon as a linear curve of switching.
upload_2021-2-14_12-55-8.png

But you also need to consider how the Gate is designed - so that if the spacing between the PLATE of the Gate, and the Substrate underneath it - can affect not just the Speed it can switch, it's also HOW QUICKLY and to what negative effect the fields the Device handles will negatively affect the pulse.

The SURFACE Area the Gate uses to exhibit the field - offers us a way to see inside the package without having to know the physical attributes of Die design.

We have Clue thru a value called Gate Charge. It's a factor of "how much charge in Coulombs" the Gate will show, exhibit - when we apply an RF, AC or Audio field to it. It will take effort to fill in that Gate Plate. So the amount of current the part needs to push the Voltage onto the Gate is an Instantaneous value - once the Charge Change is acheived, the Gate field becomes a static event until you turn off the device.

In this post, you are using the Miller Plateau as this effort of Linear operation - so the Gate Charge is used as a working value in Frequency of Xc and the IDS as a XL to help us determine working resistive Range values for On and Off and the Diode is used as a Directional Flow for the Devices ON state.

So the ON resistor value needs to be of a good ohmic value as to allow the Gate the best time ON in duration DURING the Miller Plateau event and the OFF resistor value is so you can remove the Gate Charge easily enough to allow the Fall Rate to be equal or better than the Slope you get of the Fall side of the Frequency of interest.

This loop can generate a lot of current thru the Gate, so care must be taken to allow some drive current against the Voltage needed to turn on the Gate - hence the Devices' Gate Capacitance needs to properly considered so the circuit can be tuned to make it effective as well as efficient for the Gate to follow the RF signal in this Linear region.

This in turn takes effort to ACCEPT a charge and also works against a condition of a secondary event of another field, that once the Device starts to Turn On, works as a counter-EMF field (think of this as the pulse and the effort it takes to overcome the inertia of being held off, now turning on and carrying thru the action) Much like how a garden hose nozzle hooked up to a faucet and as you turn on the water - nothing happens for a moment - this is that Plateau action; the moment of pressure building but not yet filled the space that air is being displaced from - for the water to arrive/hit the nozzle and then develop pressure or recoil force as the water shoots out the nozzle.
  • Not all of the device turns on at the same time - it Propagates - and also produces a field UNDERNEATH the Gate, that interacts with the Gate's own field - as if it were Reactive (READ: Impedance-Related) event - being out of phase with the incoming charge - absorbing the Gate's Field in the process - while the device goes from it's Off state, into On-State, the transition is a linear state, this is the Miller Plateau - the "hold" of voltage that the device "takes up" as the Device goes from High-Impedance State to a Low-Impedance state.
    • In this transition region, the device is not a true switch, it is taking in Current, IDS at the same time a voltage drop VDS is occurring
    • - these two events are affecting the Gates ability to keep accepting a charge until the device is fully on - this is a Linear region we can use.
  • If we treat this as a resistive event, we'd simply choose the time on and time off and install the part and be done with it. We cannot...
  • Because of the RISE and FALL times - the Gate capacitance and the Charge affects of the switching pulse affect how quickly or fast the switch the MOSFET is - to work for RF.it also works against us as a Frequency Response - to Impedance effort. Not just Resistive, it's capacitive and inductive.
  • We have to treat this as installing a BJT that is designed to RF, so not just any MOSFET will do.
  • We need to consider the Gate Capacitance and the Amount of Charge it will take as a factor of time so we need to remember our Timing being the Realm of 37nS
    • - so we should use values of capacitance that offer the LOWEST Xc reactive element
    • - because XL will be working against us as the counter EMF effect. That effect, looks like an Inductive event from the Transition of no Current Flowing thru the Device to Full Current capacity.

  • So I told you the above to show you this...
Article can be found here : EiceDRIVER™ - Gate resistor for power devices (infineon.com)

upload_2021-2-14_13-36-58.png
IGBT or MOSFET - note the use of RGoff RGon and DGoff - look Familiar?
We're doing it in our EKL devices
- but when you have no Driver to provide power,
You use what is the most power present
- your RF Input.

The article is based upon 2006 Data, but still applies to the effort were trying to accomplish.

So, go back to the Graphic showing those values in the Screengrab...

upload_2021-2-14_17-28-38.png
In the above enterprise Example:
  • R values are low, but in this application, the operator focused on making the MOST output from the IRF520 and attain large values of RF which did include 2nd harmonics
  • This approach gives you the greater Faster, Switching times (being low resistance they provide faster response to the flow of current within this circuit)
    • YOU DO NOT WANT THAT RESULT
    • Shortens the life of the parts...Gate Current rises and can damage the part. In this example they maximized the Drivers output to attain the values - which needed to remain constant - this was not done with a Swing Kit or had that in mind, just demonstrate how to convert BJT to MOSFET.
  • In our example, you may want to raise the ohmic values to lessen the Gate current to improve the Switching times.
    • Yes, extra Resistance may cause a longer On time, use discretion with the chosen values of Resistance used to keep the On-Off-On times to the Frequency of interest.
  • Due to the Gate current possible, the values should equate to a TOTAL Ohmic values of about 3K (3,000 ohms) ( RGON + RGOFF ) as Maximum so you don't lose the RF power you're trying to send to the Gate, from becoming lost in the circulating currents and rectification this additional circuit provides nor push the ON voltage too high and wash out the RF signal you want to amplify.
Another aspect to consider...

The Gate itself and the capacitance is exhibits affects the Admittance of the output from the Previous stage. So yes, the input capacitance needs to be considered...why?

Due to the effects of Series Capacitance - which lessens the ability to transfer RF energy over to the Gate, To Alleviate the condition you can apply a Resistive element to allow the Input Capacitance Admittance a chance to transfer energy into the opposing plate and not lose energy in the Transfer of charge - RF signal - into the circuit.

Again adding a Resistive elements can have negative impacts for driving the Gate.

  • - including the On and OFF times
    • - an accumulative event affecting the tuning of the Gate capacitance to allow the Miller Plateau to achieve its' full effect.
  • - so Selection of a value of both Capacitance for the power flowing INTO the circuit as well as Resistance for power flowing THRU the circuit into the Gate
    • - for if its' not considered, the Admittance output of the preceding stage can generate a mis-match in the coupling between the stages. an admittance issue that can damage the preceding stage.
  • So if a Resistive element is not required, but Gate appears to lag behind, the effort may not be caused by the RGoff being not low enough, for if RGoff is TOO low, Gate performance suffers in both On time and lack of linearity in Range of amplification
    • - the Linear region you simply are taking away too much RF to obtain an ON Gate voltage.
      • This condition can occur from the Range of RF levels entering in thru the Input Capacitor is too low in RF power
      • - the amount of RF the previous stage passes thru this cap is not enough to sustain the On event.
    • Try adding a low-ohmic value of resistance in Series with the Input Capacitor BEFORE the EKL derived device (EKL for Gate).
    • The additional Series resistance helps limit RF current and can offset an inherited Resonance problem of stage coupling if you are having issues with Gate charge and it's latent delay effects where;
      • the device doesn't turn off correctly or quickly enough, generating a power dissipation problem
      • the device simply is staying on too long and RGoff resistance would be too low for the Gate to remain properly On during the cycle because of RF input Dynamic Range of level change is too great.
      • Unable to Trigger ON for the length of the transmit, like SSB modes.
upload_2021-2-15_8-36-24.png
Another Method.

Use the DC power added as a low trickle voltage, to provide enough power in the EKL derivative design to help offer linearity in Range - that the RF Signal develops from the Previous stage, so the RF power can Trigger and sustain the On cycle event

IN a current Radio design...
upload_2021-2-14_17-58-32.png
There are several approaches to Biasing that can be utilized in various ways.
The above is from a radio of current production that has SSB modes - uses two MOSFETs' one as a Driver the other as the Final so the effort to make both work linearly can help us in making the Divider circuit work.

In the examples the Driver and Final use Voltage exclusively to power their respective Gates, using a 4.7K resistor as a "buffer" to keep RF at the Gate, and not flowing onto the Bias circuit. Again, a Isolation of the Gate from external inputs so the Gate can see a DC voltage and not thru the Intrinsic Diode Junction effects. They both use a Variable located on the Ground Rail side - to offer better means to control the Rise of the Gates ON voltage by holding the Ground Reference to the overall effects of the Composite the Variable resistor provides - all input of the Potentiometer are used which then reduces the over Reactive effects in the variable value the Potentiometer provides.
 

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To continue...

It is in this fashion of design, we are now adjusting the Threshold of the Gate and as to when it turns on using a STATIC DC voltage applied thru a Buffer resistor to offset the RF waves own limitations of being a highly dynamic signal in Range of power that will make it difficult to self-bias using the Didoe Resistor combinations alone.
  • The Potentiometer is a 47K some designers would consider rather high, but this Bias design is important to remember when dealing with Non-Linear devices in a fashion that requires their operational character to be closer to Linear as this radio uses SSB which works best in Modes above Class B/C - more into Class AB - you need to provide a power path to flow for the Route for the ON condition and offer plenty of room in Voltage Range in a "High Impedance state" meaning just the Voltage as a potential balanced off with little to no current (uA versus mA) flow so as to preserve the integrity of the RF signal being applied to the Gates.
  • The Driver itself in this application, has considerable Input Capacitance is PARALLEL to add capacitance (Sum together) so that RF power flows into and can overcome the Gate Voltage held higher by the resistive effects the Potentiometer adds in an Effective Impedance value. Increasing Input Capacitance to overcome the Gates own Capacitance is one way of overcoming these limitations.
    • In light of the Driver: They also incorporate a Diode to apply a thermal profile to track the heating effects, but by need, it's also included in the RGoff (or Grounded) side along with a Bypass capacitor - to reduce Inductive effects that cause loops to form. This also reduces the Voltage spikes that forms from excessive or strongly compressed RF Envelope power arriving from previous stages, including a Bipolar that is part of the TX strip and is operated in it's Linear range the Bypass is AFTER a 4.7K resistor as the Resistor is placed to position itself as an Impedance to the RF input as well as the Current placed on the Gate from it's own Gate Capacitance and Charge level.
  • In the Finals own Gate Bias circuit, several methods are applied in which to REGULATE the Bias condition so the Gate drive levels are not exceeded, as well as the Gate Current in both RF Signal and DC voltage are kept within limits so the Device does not self destruct or Saturate on in a condition known as "Latching" which will destroy the device because it's "stuck on" and won't turn off no matter how much Gate Resistance to quench this event is applied.
    • Instead: to protect from a previous stages' amplified signal from exceeding limits, the Gate Bias used in the FINAL stage is a three-point process using a buffered Resistive Gate bias feed of 4.7K, a RF Bypass Capacitor, a Variable Potentiometer adjusts the Gates THRESHOLD voltage - of when to turn on, and a set of 3 Diodes arranged in Series to lower the Bias voltage with current limiting thru a 680 ohm resistor - along with a Voltage divider of 1K and 330 ohms, to provide less current but apply a voltage presence to the gate thru the 3 didoes arranged in series to be forward biased to ground.
    • This is effective in both the Voltage Regulation Rise the Didoes own Voltage Drop in their junctions acts upon the voltage and stabilize this as both an Intrinsic (Semiconductor) inherited Voltage Drop that RAISES the intrinsic effect of the voltage presence available to use by the Gate - but also provides a form of Thermal tracking being in close proximity to the Final but not connected directly to it except thru the Gate and that is thru a Filter capacitor and the 4.7K Buffer Resistor similar to the Driver in function.
Referring to the Graphic in the Post above, locate D210 and R218 (1K) - note how they are positioned to tap into the OUTPUT of the AM Regulator.

Note also the Diodes orientation.
  • It is set up to flow INTO the AM Regulator Bias line if and when the Audio Bias line drops below the threshold of where D210 can be forward biased, into this AM Regulator output line.
This design provides a form a Regulation for the Gate - the Voltage presence drops by a factor of the loss across the divider that feeds into the 3 diodes and that Variable potentiometer. - changing the amount of Voltage present to the Gate thru that 4.7K Buffer Resistor.

IF the modulation is excessive, as if it were a heavy modulated envelope of power, the Audio signal pressed into this bias line, is an AC signal biased to close to 5.6 to as much s 8 volts - and can drop to as low as 2 volts.

In SSB and FM modes, this is a moot point, no true audio signal is imposed on the output line from the AM regulator. The output from the AM regulator is pure DC adjusted for the Final and Driver to output proper signal drive level for the output carrier - it simply sends DC to the Driver and Final at the appropriate power level to drive signal for the Gates' to process - not the Drain to Source wildly swinging signal to show a a complex impedance load.

It's when the Envelope power exceeds the required input voltage offset (Above ground) to remain forward biased can the power present to be amplified at the Gate, can be strong enough on it's own merits even without applied DC voltage - it may damage the device from exceeding not VGS, but a Gate to Drain or Gate to Source (reverse bias) voltage condition.

This condition can generate several problems with the MOSFET - with a major one being the ability to recover from heavy voltage loss across the Drain to Source that the Gate can exceed the Input Voltage to the Drain, and can permanently damage the device.

  • An answer to this condition can be found in this snippet, Final Bias circuit using R292 and D221 - they got to the AN612c equivalent or NJM2954 and Q210 handles the Audio that enters into this Balanced Modulator amp/mixer - also grounds BIAS line as discussed in the Graphic.
upload_2021-2-14_21-41-37.png

As a precaution, in AM mode, the Radio is designed to make the Gate voltage fall below a level that when the Input power swings enter from the Driver - the Gate does not turn on as quickly as it would have if the heavy modulation conditions didn't occur. The Bias circuit and Gates' Capacitance affect the input level to lessen - or compress - the swing into a lower power drive level reflected at the output of the Final.

Remember The Following:
The modification parts and
procedure
can change without notice.
If you perform the Mods and find they don't work,
Review the above - this is a guide,
- we cannot be held responsible for
damages
caused by improper install or willful abuse of the
information these pages contain.

 
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Have you figured it out yet?

If so Good job! Use the radio wisely - remember it's being driven by the person that knows what they're doing work stations accordingly.

Thank you for taking the time to read the material - I hope it helps you...


For the rest...

A WWDX Cheat Sheet...
upload_2021-2-18_10-10-5.png
Including updated EKL values for those that...
Ahemn - Roll their own....​
 
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I want to use a high power N channel MOSFET like for example a 24N50.
The 24N50 is in fact another N channel power MOSFET with different ratings and higher wattage than the irf520 and some of the other Fairchild type MOSFETs already used in some 10 meter radios.
The 24N50 is the only MOSFET I currently have in my possession just itching to use it for something that'll kick @$$.
Any suggestions or valuable input on this 24N50 as to where it can be used in my cobra 25 classic as a power output or an audio input ?
 
See Here...

You're more than welcome to try, no one is stopping you, just the physics of the problem...

It awaits a solution from you.
 
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Choosing a switchmode MOSFET that will amplify RF power isn't as easy as it sounds. A transistor that the manufacturer designed to do the job of RF power amplification will list things like power gain, bandwidth and RF output at different frequencies. The transistor's specifications are the launch pad for choosing component values in the rest of the amplifier circuits.

Just one problem. Both of these transistors were designed, sold and characterized to use as on/off switches. Period. The published specs say absolutely nothing about RF input/output impedances, bandwidth, or RF wattage. Nada.

I'm still learning to read between the lines, so to speak, and make sense of the numbers they do publish for these parts.

Just comparing published specs for the IRF520 and 24N50 should reveal the differences between them, if nothing else.

The spec for switching speed is all I know to use to predict how high the max frequency a MOSFET can amplify.

The specs "rise time" and "fall time" will provide some guide to how fast it can respond to RF drive power. For the IRF520, both those numbers list at 70 nanoseconds. Same as 0.07 microseconds. A 1 MHz signal has a period of 1 uS. A period of 70 nanoseconds corresponds to a frequency of abut 14 MHz. Clearly the IRF520 will function at about twice this frequency. Not a terribly scientific guideline, but there it is.

The 24N50 is a bit different. Rise time is shown as 170 nS, fall time is 320 nS. Corresponds to just under 6 MHz for the first number, and 3 MHz for fall time. Leads me to suspect that the power gain will be quite low. Makes it sound as if it will run out of steam somewhere between 6 and 12 MHz.

The rule you'll see with these switchmode MOSFET transistor like those two is that the higher the power ratings, the slower it will be. One hint can be seen in the fleabay sales listings for linears built with this kind of part. Some are listed as 7 MHz max, at least one I saw said 14 MHz.

There is one thing working in your favor in the long run. Higher and higher switching frequencies make switchmode power supplies a bit more efficient, and reduces the size of circuit components in a big way. This has created an incentive to make newer switchmode MOSFETs as fast as they can. And if what you want to do is amplify RF, faster is better.

I have not experimented with newer switchmode MOSFET transistors as RF amplifiers. The IRF parts are 30 or 40 year-old designs. The latest new twist is to make the transistor from silicon carbide. Maybe those will stand up to high SWR a little better. Switchmode MOSFETs are famously sensitive to high SWR in RF amplifier service. They tend to poof more quickly than the old-school bipolar RF transistors would. One mobile radio that has eight IRF520-type transistors in the built-in linear we nicknamed the firestarter.

73
 
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