Complete gear recommendations for Rocky Mountain backcountry use

[4wd]

Greetings,

New to forum. Sorry for loooong post - trying to anticipate your questions of me in advance.

Need help getting recommendations for a complete set of gear - radio, mic, antenna, and potentially amplifier for back country 4x4 use in the western mountains.

I'm hoping to get recommendations from people who have used the gear they are recommending, and preferably people who have used gear for communications in the back country in 4x4, off-road/high vibration environments.

By way of background, I was extensively involved in the late 1970's with CB, even built a cubical-quad directional antenna from scratch, but that was a long time ago!

Mounting application for the equipment:
- Platform is 2013 Toyota Tundra Rock Warrior 4x4.
- Has Snug Top camper shell installed
- There is already additional electrical demand: Warn 16.5k lb winch, air compressor, under seat music amplifier, driving lights, fog lights, Viper alarm, remote start, GPS, jump box charging, etc.

Goals/capability requirements (in order of importance not frequency of usage):
1. Emergency signaling in case of vehicle break down where no cell coverage exists while doing 4x4 off-road driving in the Rocky Mountains (i.e. CO, UT, AZ, WY, MT). These mountains exceed 14,000 ft. and elevation gain/loss can be 9000 ft over a few miles' driving.
2. Communicate with other 4x4 users in back country while off-roading
3. Listen for road conditions while on-highway
4. Monitor weather

Technical preferences:
- Strong preference for NOAA in the radio but not absolute requirement
- Everything (radio, amp, antenna, etc) must be rugged and vibration resistant (off-road, rock-crawling drops, miles and miles of washboard road, etc)
- Smaller radio size is better
- Power (watts): Since this radio has emergency communication in remote locations as a priority use-case, the ability to benefit from high power settings / tuning / SSB / or an amplifier is beneficial. However, the ability to run at lower power for routine use is nice as well.


Recommend a system: The nice opportunity for your recommendations here is to specify this as a *system* that inter-operates well together.

Cost: I am not particularly cost sensitive, but not looking to waste money either. I like quality gear that works; I don't like dicking around with cheap gear. Mil-spec is not required but mil-spec commo gear did in fact save my life in the jungle in the drug war days - I get it.

I'm considering:
- Antenna: Wilson (open to models)

- Radio:
* Uniden BEARCAT 980SSB CB Radio With Sideband And WeatherBand - is it rugged?
* Galaxy DX-949 CB Mob ssb Swr Talkback Rog.bp Pa Mode (no NOAA, and biggish size format)

- Mic: ECHO / POWER MIC for 4 pin Cobra / Uniden / DX CB Radio - Workman DM452 (for the modulation not the echo)

- Amp: No idea. I'm really ignorant on this topic; need education please.


Questions:

A. What radio should I consider? Do people in the 4x4 community use SSB?

B. Do rural, western emergency service agencies still monitor channel 9? Do they have SSB?

B. What antenna? Remember that long antennas hang up in brush and trees.

C. While a linear amp can boost my transmission power (in life-safety situation) does it help me receive better? If not, what's the value of a linear amp?

D: Which microphone?

E: Should I send a new radio to someone to tune it before first installation: If so, to whom?

F: What amp should I consider, if any? Use scenario?

G: I may add a roof rack later (is this a ground plane?) Impact on antenna location, type?

H. What else should I be considering?


Thank you!!!!

The life you save may be, well, mine!

 

[Mudfoot]

You sound like you pretty much know what you need.

The Uniden 980 would be a good rig. Antenna choices are plentiful. Using CB as a sole source of emergency communications without cell coverage is iffy, especially with current solar conditions. You may have to have a guy in Florida call authorities for you.

If you had a HAM license, your chances of immediate contacts are better at making a simplex or repeater contact considering your altitudes.

Sounds like your not a poor man...

I would just slap a decent little CB with SSB behind a little amp for trail comms. Then buy a satellite phone for getting immediate help. Along with a GPS beacon.

If you wheel in truly remote areas I wouldn't take any chances.

I used to take off in the desert around El Paso and White Sands back in the late 70's while stationed there. I had a '78 Land Cruiser. All I had was extra gas, food, water, sleeping bags, an old JC Penny Pinto mobile with a steel whip, compass (courtesy of Uncle Sam) topo maps and a few drunk friends.

We got stranded a few times and made contacts on CB to get help. Wish we had cell and sat phones then.

I would definitely have weather radio capability. Maybe pick up a couple Baofeng or Wouxun part 90 handhelds. You can use these for trail and emergency use if needed. Worry about legal issues after your rescued.

Anyways, your likely to find better and more expert advice on the various hardcore wheeling forums on the net.

I'm just some crazy nut that took off in the mountains and desert with a cooler full of beer and some equally crazy friends.

 

[cbradiomagazine.com]

Hi 4WD,

A. What radio should I consider? Do people in the 4x4 community use SSB?

Most 4 x 4 clubs use AM mode but they do use CB radios still in many clubs and most have them in their vehicles. However in my experience 4 x 4 drivers out alone don't usually have the radio on, it's when they are in pairs or groups that they use them.

SSB would be the best mode to reach someone further away in case of an emergency but it would still be limited by terrain, distance, and if anyone is listening in that area.

B. Do rural, western emergency service agencies still monitor channel 9? Do they have SSB?

Most likely no one will be monitoring channel 9 in case of an emergency and they don't monitor ssb. Truck drivers use 17 and 19 quite often and a lot of cber's can be found on ch 38 on LSB.

B. What antenna? Remember that long antennas hang up in brush and trees.

The wilson 1000 or 5000 are good magentic mount antennas, if you're going to be in some rough areas with lots of low branches you might consider a front fender mount antenna. If you go with a fender mount I find the radio shack 21-988 is actually a pretty good antenna for off road as it base loaded and the whip can handle hitting branches.

New RadioShack Stainless Steel Mobile CB Antenna 64" Height 21 988 | eBay

C. While a linear amp can boost my transmission power (in life-safety situation) does it help me receive better? If not, what's the value of a linear amp?

If other people can't hear you you're not likely to get any help. The reason talking farther from a vehicle is useful is because in many cases people on base stations will be able to talk and hear better than you can. Even though you can hear stations if you're deep in the woods they may not hear you. It's possible they have stronger radios and antennas mounted higher in the air than you as well so adding an amplifier will help your signal go farther.

D: Which microphone?

If you go with the 980 I'd suggest a good power microphone, a D104, Road Devil Noise Cancelling microphone, etc.

E: Should I send a new radio to someone to tune it before first installation: If so, to whom?

The radio can benefit from a tune if the person doing it knows their stuff. The radio can work fine stock but a slight modulation adjustment can help. Also if you plan to run it with an amplifier it will need to be "matched" to the amplifier for proper input.

F: What amp should I consider, if any? Use scenario?

Something small like the KL203 would work fine with the 980 or you can go larger for more output. A lot will depend on how much you want to spend, how much output you want, how much wiring you want to do / difficultly level, and how well your antenna system is tuned.

Higher power amplifiers require larger power wires and a very well tuned antenna.

G: I may add a roof rack later (is this a ground plane?) Impact on antenna location, type?

If you do a fender mount the roof rack shouldn't be a problem. If you do an antenna mounted on the roof it probably won't be an issue but you'll want to leave some space between the antenna and other pieces if possible.

H. What else should I be considering?

Most important as duster stated the CB should not be a primary means of safety in the backcountry.

As someone who does a lot of backcountry sports and travel I'd suggest a device designed specifically for that kind of application that has GPS and satellite connection ability.

There are a bunch of devices available, I've used the SPOT device and it seems like a good type of system but there are others devices as well.

SPOT Satellite GPS Messenger

Ham radio also offers some benefits because of more users monitoring stations and modes that offer better odds at talking longer distances. However you'd need to pass the tests and the equipment is much more expensive.

I think personally for off road use I'd go with the SSB radio + GPS SAT rescue device and you'd be able to communicate with other 4 x 4 vehicles, other SSB CBer's and also have a backup device that will work anywhere in case of an emergency.

 

[4wd]

Thanks guys!

I actually do have an ACR Electronics SARLink 406 GPS PLB -- use it when I thow a pack on and walk back a few miles into wilderness areas elk hunting solo in the October, along with a cell phone and back up batteries. If I can hump up to the top of something I can usually get a cell signal. I DO need to throw the ACR into the truck.

I've used the 9555 sat phones in Alaska and Tanzania but pricey for occassional use - but I'll have to keep in mind - good reminder!

So I did some research based on your posts and if I went with Technician amatur license, what band would I target for my purposes -- 10 meter? -- and kind of range could I expect when the sun is not active? And who would answer -- do I just keep cq'ing until I get some guy in whatever-ville and give him my lat-long for an off-road wrecker, or would I expect someone in the same state to reply? Is there a standard SOS/Channel 9 equivelent? I could probably pass the Technician Class test with a class and some study, but then I'd get what band radio what and expect what capabilities? Given the cost and the time this is where the sat phone starts to look good -- I don't see myself driving around and chatting up people on 10 meter, but I may be off-base here. I'm flexible!

Back to CB antenna selection, are the HotStik hood/fender antennas useful in this application, or do I need to get a taller antenna and mount it on the front winch bumper?

If I got an amp, can I switch it off and talk straight thru it with no VDC power to the amp at legal CB power, or would I have bypass the amp and put a double female union in the coax? Or is it either you always use the amp or never?

In this day and age (hey, it's not 1978 anymore!) how to I find a quality radio tech and shop that won't jack up my radio and can balance the system -- you know, like an engineer would? I'm no longer qualified to assess a technician's skill... I'm in central Colorado, or could do mail order but still need the install...

Thoughts?

 

[buickid]

*snip*

Back to CB antenna selection, are the HotStik hood/fender antennas useful in this application, or do I need to get a taller antenna and mount it on the front winch bumper?
For getting range, the biggest antenna you can mount is generally the best. Skinny antennas like the Wilson 5000 are quite flexible and can take quite of abuse without breaking. Even if you manage to bend it, stingers are fairly cheap and quickly replaced. Or you could probably bend it back straight if its not too mangled, its stainless steel. Best mounting is usually on the roof. As they say, height is might, so as high as you can get it, the better. Ground plane (about which books can be written) is important, and generally the biggest flat metal surface you can get makes the best ground plane, which usually means the roof.

If I got an amp, can I switch it off and talk straight thru it with no VDC power to the amp at legal CB power, or would I have bypass the amp and put a double female union in the coax? Or is it either you always use the amp or never?
Yep, it can be switched off, just talk straight through it. The Galaxy is nice with its built in variable power. If you have a good shop set it up, they'll set the minimum power on the dial to work nicely with the amp, and maximum power to be whatever they deem proper for the radio. Turn it all the way CCW for the amp, full open CW for "barefoot" (no amp). Just don't forget to dial it back down before you kick the amp on.

In this day and age (hey, it's not 1978 anymore!) how to I find a quality radio tech and shop that won't jack up my radio and can balance the system -- you know, like an engineer would? I'm no longer qualified to assess a technician's skill... I'm in central Colorado, or could do mail order but still need the install...
I've (as well as others on the forum) have used DTB radio in Pennsylvania with great success. Hes known for putting out clean sounding radios, and doing quality work without any of the gimmicks some other shops try to sell you. My radio consistently gets reports of "great sounding audio" on sideband and its nothing more than a DTB tuned Galaxy 979 feeding a Texas Star DX500. All this from the stock mic, no batteries to die at an inopportune time. Its so much nicer to listen to a clean sounding radio on the air than a crunchy, over modulated splatter box, especially on AM. If you have DTB do your radio, tell him you're going to be feeding an RM Italy 203 (or whatever amp you decide on, the 203 is a nice little class AB piece that should great if setup right) and you'll be golden. DTB's radio cost a little more, but they include the peak and tune, so the prices are fair, IMO.

Thoughts?

73's from Honolulu
Trevor

 

[Watergate]

So I did some research based on your posts and if I went with Technician amatur license, what band would I target for my purposes -- 10 meter? -- and kind of range could I expect when the sun is not active? And who would answer -- do I just keep cq'ing until I get some guy in whatever-ville and give him my lat-long for an off-road wrecker, or would I expect someone in the same state to reply? Is there a standard SOS/Channel 9 equivelent? I could probably pass the Technician Class test with a class and some study, but then I'd get what band radio what and expect what capabilities? Given the cost and the time this is where the sat phone starts to look good -- I don't see myself driving around and chatting up people on 10 meter, but I may be off-base here. I'm flexible!

2 meters or 70 cm band is where you would find help. But I would also carry a sat phone or something similar.

Hams put repeaters on mountain peaks all over the west, so chances of communicating through a repeater are better than relying on a cooperative ionosphere to help your signal on CB.

As to your question about a channel 9 on Ham. You call SOS or Emergency. There are people who have dreamed of hearing an emergency call since they got their license. There are a lot more people who train to provide emergency communications in the Ham community. Get a list of repeaters in the areas you will be.someone will hear you call for help and respond.

 

[Mudfoot]

Mayday! Mayday! sounds cooler.

 

[Onthecoast]

If you decide to go cb and are interested in the uniden 980ssb, I'm selling mine and its in excellent condition. Has sideband of course and weather.

 

[n8fgb]

I would stay away from CB radio for what you want to do.They give out Tech licenses in Cracker Jack boxs. If you can build your own cbe qaud, getting your general will be a snap.Go to www.arrl.org for study material, and www.qrz.com for practiec tests. You can get a used all band all mode, like the Icom 706, Yaesu FT 857/897, for about what a new 10 meter only will cost. Then mount a vhf/uhf antenna to your light bar, or other top location. With a camper top, if you have a winch bumper, place your hf antenna mount there. You can just get some hamstick type antennas, and just cary them with you. When you want to use hf, just screw in the antenna for the band you want to use. 14.300 has stations monitoring all the time, drooling for the chance to help someone in trouble.
I was broke down was once offroad in northern Mi, ops on 75 meters stayed with me while I made temp repairs to get back to a road. After making better reapirs they stayed with for 3 hrs, untill I was in my driveway at home.
Rich
N8FGB

 

[gamegetter]

I'm just some crazy nut that took off in the mountains and desert with a cooler full of beer and some equally crazy friends.

Same here, used to head into the hill country with only fishing gear, beer and friends and a 2 wheel drive truck!

Until i figured out it was better to take my girlfriends out for a night under the stars!



Uh the post, yes ahh if you have any more questions please ask.

 

[4wd]

Fabulous responses!!!!

Thank you!!!

Lots for me to process -- I'm going to digest all this great info.

Plus, you guys are too funny. Sounds like we could all swap some great younger-days memories - it's a wonder that more than 50% of boys survive into manhood!

FWIW my first CB was a an old (old in 1975) three channel tube radio that was the size of a loaf of bread. It was brown but I forget the maker.The crystals were the size of the end of your thumb. Sure was a talker! Later replaced by a Midland 23 channel; changing channels is a bit slow when you have to swap crystals. License was KIS-4277; never forget it. Man, I'm getting old.

 

[4wd]

Does anyone make/sell a radio that covers CB bands and also 10m or other spectra if I get a HAM license later on?

 

[gamegetter]

yes the export radios are easily converted to cover 10 and 11 meters and some to 12m

however the band characteristics are the same, you are dependent on conditions to get your signal out if there is no one nearby or within range. ie as mentioned earlier you may have to skip to Florida to get some help. however i like the idea of getting help from 10 meters over 11 meters, sometimes there can be some real, well let's say difficulty with some folks on 11m.

good luck keep looking and showing interest that is how you learn.

on edit:

plus i am sure a mayday, mayday call will not be disregarded on 10 provided you have conditions somewhere.

 

[gamegetter]

2 meters

attached link showing 2 meter repeaters and an active club in the area, perhaps this may be the way to go, will need ham license but that is not too tough these days,

check the link and see if any of those repeaters are in the area you frequent, it is worth a shot.

Repeaters Rocky Mountain Radio League

on edit: the first page of the web site "Members are located up and down the Front Range from Cheyenne to Colorado Springs, and membership fluctuates around 350."
http://www.rmrl.org/

 

[4wd]

"Members are located up and down the Front Range from Cheyenne to Colorado Springs, and membership fluctuates around 350."

Wow. I had no idea. Thanks!